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Old 03-08-2007, 02:24 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
FALSE. You get an "F" :icon_bigg

Corrected:

You have faith in Jesus Christ because you fear what would happen otherwise? (This is a question... don't attack me.)

2nd, Can you look at history and tell me Christianity is not a fear based religion?
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:31 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Never said you were dumb, you just didn't comprehend the point I was making which could very well be by no fault of your own but rather my not communicating that point more clearly.
Maybe you don't comprehend the point you are making.
Quote:

There you go with that again. You state that the Bible adds a new meaning to the word fear but contradict yourself in the very next offering because within the defintion it says flatly: Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power. or To be in awe of; revere making your statement whereby you said "I guess the Bible adds a new meaning to the word "fear", but to me fear is anything but respect" absolutely ridiculous. Come on man! Read! Comprehend!

I understand what I read and what I typed. My comprehension was that the Bible's definitions, like those that are found in the dictionary that stem from the bible's 'definition', go against the other definitions and make no sense in the common use of the word.



Quote:
Does that not then invalidate the source and further, your assertion? Or could it be perhaps that you are wrong?:confused1
It doesn't invalidate anything, but shows a contradiction in meaning. To me it's like calling love 'hate', no matter if the meaning has been interpreted to truly be "reverence" and "awe".


Quote:
Exactly! you think
Yep, called humility.


Quote:
How in the world does that comprimise the merit in faith? If we could empirically verify that he was in fact real, where then would there be a need for faith?
It compromises faith in the way you related it to having "faith" that you won't wreck a bike, when in all reality that possibility is very real, just like the possibility of not existing is very real and hence faith really is not a sure thing.
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:36 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
It's funny that you cite this verse without having cited or made note of the circumstances upon which this decision was predicated-the pharoahs agreement with to allow the Jews to leave Egypt and then reniging at the last moment, not to mention the fact that the Egyptions had enslaved the Jews with the amount of harseness you would afford a rat. Consider more than just individual words and look for to the entire story and perhaps the meaning behind it.
Please stop implicating my knowledge and rational, it's really condescending for you to say what I consider and I do not consider.
I didn't make a note of the circumstances because they don't seem important. If I told you I was going to kill every baby in houston tonight, would you say, 'well..before i ask if that's something good or bad, let me ask how you might justify that', or would you be like 'WTF is the matter with you? What has any baby ever done to deserve to die?'
Oh, but again, I'm not so I can't kill innocent babies, but wait you said he doesn't kill the innocent and you also implied the people of Sodom and Gomorrah deserved their fate.
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:47 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Just remember that you said it, I didn't
No, you're right. You didn't say it. You just implied it
Good man.

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Nope, I can't see it so just go ahead n show me. Deal?
Exodus 11:5

Quote:
I saw no mention of either depravity or economic crimes within those verses, why don't you go back n check on that one n get back to me with a better choice of words? Or show me where it says such things, in the bible. Deal?

Why don't you save me the trouble and explain why did it since you seem so sure that he was 'just' in his actions and you're the one always pointing out my lack of biblical support, so that makes me think you're more prepared.
Quote:
I'm not attacking it but it is no longer considered a valid source of information by the more learned of our society. I showed you the article which was from a valid source. What more do you need? As far as not having a Bible in your house, this is the reason I linked to the books of the Bible at Biblegateway dot com.
Who are the more learned of our society, besides your Highness, that do not trust Wikipedia?
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:47 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Moody
Alice,
All you need to know is that Christianity is a fear based religion and Buddhism is not. Carry On!
i think it Is fear-based. i'm just trying to learn the christian perspective.
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:50 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
i think it Is fear-based. i'm just trying to learn the christian perspective.
:laughing6

Even Christians do not know their perspective. Why do you think there is so many sects?
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:05 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
You have faith in Jesus Christ because you fear what would happen otherwise? (This is a question... don't attack me.)
And to answer your question, No, that is not why :icon_bigg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
2nd, Can you look at history and tell me Christianity is not a fear based religion?
I can look at what the Bible says and tell you that it is not fear based
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:11 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Maybe you don't comprehend the point you are making.
That is definately possible, unlikely, but I won't rule it out completely...:icon_bigg

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
I understand what I read and what I typed. My comprehension was that the Bible's definitions, like those that are found in the dictionary that stem from the bible's 'definition', go against the other definitions and make no sense in the common use of the word.
So your basically saying that the dictionary got the definition wrong? If so, I rest my case....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
It doesn't invalidate anything, but shows a contradiction in meaning.
By the dictionary? Riiiiigggghhhhttt

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Yep, called humility.
Or another word which ends in "-ity"

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
It compromises faith in the way you related it to having "faith" that you won't wreck a bike, when in all reality that possibility is very real, just like the possibility of not existing is very real and hence faith really is not a sure thing.
Hence the word...wait for it...waiiiiitttt fooor it: Faith
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:20 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Please stop implicating my knowledge and rational, it's really condescending for you to say what I consider and I do not consider.
I didn't make a note of the circumstances because they don't seem important. If I told you I was going to kill every baby in houston tonight, would you say, 'well..before i ask if that's something good or bad, let me ask how you might justify that', or would you be like 'WTF is the matter with you? What has any baby ever done to deserve to die?'
Oh, but again, I'm not so I can't kill innocent babies, but wait you said he doesn't kill the innocent and you also implied the people of Sodom and Gomorrah deserved their fate.
Well therein lies your problem, you don't consider relevant facts and think nothing of context, please excuse my conclusion, I'm basing it off of what I am reading of your posts. You're right, you are not so I won't get into the impossible hypothetical situation. If you told me you were going to kill every baby in Houston tonight, I would report you. How do you know there were actually any babies within either cities walls? You don't. And here's something to think about: If everyone was either homosexual or otherwise abominable, how would there even be any babies?
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:25 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Well therein lies your problem, you don't consider relevant facts and think nothing of context, please excuse my conclusion, I'm basing it off of what I am reading of your posts. You're right, you are not so I won't get into the impossible hypothetical situation. If you told me you were going to kill every baby in Houston tonight, I would report you. How do you know there were actually any babies within either cities walls? You don't. And here's something to think about: If everyone was either homosexual or otherwise abominable, how would there even be any babies?
We're talking about Egypt? Right? Not Sodom/Gomorrah?
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:31 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
No, you're right. You didn't say it. You just implied it
Good man.
No I didn't, YOU did fella

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Exodus 11:5
He was referring to the first born sons of Egypt so that the kingdom of Egypt would no longer be able to exist due to it having no one to rule. Punishment for going against the will of the Lord to free his people. Again, you dismiss both context and other relevant facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Why don't you save me the trouble and explain why did it since you seem so sure that he was 'just' in his actions and you're the one always pointing out my lack of biblical support, so that makes me think you're more prepared.
I am not nor will I even begin to attempt to understand his reasoning. He did what he did, why don't you ask him? If you cannot see his being just by some of the verses that I have given then I cannot help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Who are the more learned of our society, besides your Highness, that do not trust Wikipedia?
Did you not click the link? Here I'll give it again click there--->>>>>CLICK HERE<<<<<---click there. I wasn't referring to myself when I had said the more learned of our society, I was referring to teachers.
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Old 03-08-2007, 03:33 PM   #192
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We're talking about Egypt? Right? Not Sodom/Gomorrah?
Refer to above...since we're talking about Egypt, cuz I coulda swore we were talking about Sodom and Gomorra
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:45 PM   #193
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No I didn't, YOU did fella
Yes, you only praised Ramius for his patience in dealing with me, a person who can't see the point and can only nitpick and be superfluous, and not ask a non-rhetorical, or non-redundant genuine question. But I'm not dumb.



Quote:
He was referring to the first born sons of Egypt so that the kingdom of Egypt would no longer be able to exist due to it having no one to rule. Punishment for going against the will of the Lord to free his people. Again, you dismiss both context and other relevant facts.
I'm dismissing the context because I don't think it Is relevant to what I'm trying to rationalize, which is 's decision in killing a nation full of children. You said, and I quote " did not harm innocents, he spared them.", but maybe you just meant at S&G. Well, this story here shows that he did kill innocent children.
And what I find additionally funny is the fact you told me to consult Exodus to find a story of 's forgiveness. A story where "spared them and forgave them their transgressions", which is very easy to see the love in. His intentions are very clear there. He's all about love. But when he kills babies, that's hard for me to swallow as coming from an omniscient being. It seems more like something a child or brute would do.


Quote:
I am not nor will I even begin to attempt to understand his reasoning. He did what he did, why don't you ask him? If you cannot see his being just by some of the verses that I have given then I cannot help you.
Yet you understand his reasoning when he does good. Just like all of those athletes always giving glory to after they win, but where's when they lose?
And it's not just a matter of him being just in Some verses, but all verses, for he's a perfect being and his actions and philosophy should reflect that, but there is no philosophy. There's jsut some rules and stories which have to be milked for morals by priests and preachers that are paid out of the pockets of the falsely penitent.

Quote:
Did you not click the link? Here I'll give it again click there--->>>>>CLICK HERE<<<<<---click there. I wasn't referring to myself when I had said the more learned of our society, I was referring to teachers.
Okay, I'll check it out.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:51 PM   #194
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Holy smokes, I have to give props to y'all for carrying this thread this long. Man, it's too long to catch up.:notworthy

Last edited by level5; 03-08-2007 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:52 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Refer to above...since we're talking about Egypt, cuz I coulda swore we were talking about Sodom and Gomorra
Nope. Here, I'll show you.



Me, mentioning 's killing of all the first born sons in Egypt.
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Okay, so you laid out your forgiveness text, here's something I'd like you to find the same love and forgiveness in.

11:3 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.
11:4 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: .
11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
11:8 And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger.
11:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.
11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and he LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

You responding to this, saying I don't consider the circumstances under which was just in killing these babies.
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
It's funny that you cite this verse without having cited or made note of the circumstances upon which this decision was predicated-the pharoahs agreement with to allow the Jews to leave Egypt and then reniging at the last moment, not to mention the fact that the Egyptions had enslaved the Jews with the amount of harseness you would afford a rat. Consider more than just individual words and look for to the entire story and perhaps the meaning behind it.

I continue to talk about the babies of egypt
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Please stop implicating my knowledge and rational, it's really condescending for you to say what I consider and I do not consider.
I didn't make a note of the circumstances because they don't seem important. If I told you I was going to kill every baby in houston tonight, would you say, 'well..before i ask if that's something good or bad, let me ask how you might justify that', or would you be like 'WTF is the matter with you? What has any baby ever done to deserve to die?'
Oh, but again, I'm not so I can't kill innocent babies, but wait you said he doesn't kill the innocent and you also implied the people of Sodom and Gomorrah deserved their fate.

You ask me how do I know if there were any babies in the city walls (of egypt?)
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Well therein lies your problem, you don't consider relevant facts and think nothing of context, please excuse my conclusion, I'm basing it off of what I am reading of your posts. You're right, you are not so I won't get into the impossible hypothetical situation. If you told me you were going to kill every baby in Houston tonight, I would report you. How do you know there were actually any babies within either cities walls? You don't. And here's something to think about: If everyone was either homosexual or otherwise abominable, how would there even be any babies?
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:55 PM   #196
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Holy smokes, I have to give props to y'all for carrying this thread this long. Man, it's too long to catch up.:notworthy
we could use a 3rd party
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:03 PM   #197
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we could use a 3rd party
I don't have anything to offer.
I am clueless about life and everything else.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:14 PM   #198
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I don't have anything to offer.
I am clueless about life and everything else.
so is everyone else, i think, but realizing it suggests to me you know enough
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:29 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Did you not click the link? Here I'll give it again click there--->>>>>CLICK HERE<<<<<---click there. I wasn't referring to myself when I had said the more learned of our society, I was referring to teachers.
Okay, I skimmed through the link. I agree that it's probably not wise to quote wiki-created text, but a lot of wiki has citations that you can check with the click of a mouse, and I think it's a whole lot more comprehensive source of information than any place I've encountered, and to be honest I love wikipedia. I think it's a great place to go on a "learning adventure", you just have to be cautious of what you "accept", like with anything else.

Here's back up for the info I cited from wiki, just to show that it is somewhat thorough, although all the sources could be called into question as well.

Flavius Josephus, a Romano-Jewish historian, wrote:
"Now, about this time the Sodomites, overweeningly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth, showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from him, hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. Indignant at this conduct, accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward."— Jewish Antiquities 1:194-195

Notice any similarity between their behaviors and usa?

But of course they were supposedly pervs too.

"And the angels came to the city of the Sodomites...when the Sodomites beheld the young men, who were outstanding in beauty of appearance and who had been received into Lots’s house, they set about to do violence and outrage to their youthful beauty....Therefore, , indignant at their bold acts, struck them with blindness, so that they were unable to find the entrance into the house, and condemned the Sodomites to destruction of the whole population."
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:59 PM   #200
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i was just watching a fire ant commercial, showing a young child running through the lawn, the father displaying a carefree demeanor. i was also juggling thoughts of religion and so i wondered, what if commercials took on the marketing tactics of Christianity? which led me to ask...
which fire ant commercial is more effective at gaining customers?

the fire ant commercial that shows you the happy picnic you could have with your family on the front lawn, smiles all around, pure bliss for everyone?

or the fire ant commercial that shows you a person engulfed in ants, eaten to the bone, because they didn't buy the product?

or the commercial that contrasts the two and tells you that those are your only choices?
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