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Old 01-26-2013, 10:11 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
Agree on all points. The higher the speed, the greater the lethality. It's simple physics.
Speed is a factor, not a cause. But "Speeding" is not. Lets go with this Mr. Physics. And I'll keep it Jr. High since I know you're no real physics guy.

A - Going 85 MPH in a school zone, you hit a ladder that freakishly fell from a truck bed right as you passed the truck causing you to crash into a brick wall... Results = speed * deceleration rate = bodily harm.

B - Going 85 MPH on the Austin Tollway, you hit a ladder that freakishly fell from a truck bed right as you passed the truck causing you to crash into the median divider (assuming the same angle as we hit the brick wall)... Results = speed * deceleration rate = bodily harm.

By your logic, example A would cause more bodily harm because the speed limit was lower. By physics, they would be equal.

Now kindly drop that argument or drop "physics" from your statement in that argument.

-----

That said, I agree with most everything else you have to say. But don't tell me "speeding" changes physics. Speed is a factor "speeding" is a term which has no effect on physics, only on wallets. I respect the law very much. But I know why speed limits are in place. It's the "safe" top speed on the given road. So granny in her 83 beater is safely driving 70, but my car with performance tires, brake pads, slotted rotors, ABS, etc is a disaster waiting to happen at 80 on the same road? Think about it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:42 AM   #82
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Actually, I am a physics guy.

Speed limits are set by traffic engineers who examine road characteristics to determine what speeds are safe for traffic to safely flow over. These traffic engineers are people like me; I've trained with them, and we do different things, but we have much the same education. Many of us are taught by Texas A&M Engineering Extension, who also accept attorneys who specialize in traffic accident litigation, police, engineers, people from DOT, etc.

This is what Collision Reconstructionists do.

You can throw all sorts of scenarios at me, and it won't make a difference to the basic point. We're not talking granny vs. you. We're talking you at the speed limit vs. you at 20 over the speed limit. Lethality is higher in ANY SCENARIO with you at 20 over the speed limit.

If this were not true, there would be no need for speed limits at all. Think about THAT.

Simple physics says you are carrying more kinetic energy, reduced reaction time and greater braking time and distance with you at higher speeds. You can argue about it all day. You're simply wrong.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:51 AM   #83
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Here dude... Wikipedia on Collision Reconstruction. This is my job title and my knowledge base. I have much extended training on the topic matter though, and I do actually teach collision investigation and reconstruction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicul...reconstruction
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:47 AM   #84
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Quote:
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I tried to cut people a break if they were obviously poor, because it would hit them much harder than someone with money.
I'm good with it all, except this. Income (high or low) shouldn't give anyone a break...either way.

FWIW, I am ALWAYS polite and professional to LEO's. I usually get a warning or a break. I don't complain if I get a ticket; I deserve it if I am breaking the law.

I for one am grateful for LEO's being out there, especially after the accidents I have been in.

I have had VERY few run in's with the prototypical asshat LEO so many complain about. The VERY few times it's happened, they have almost always been corrected by another LEO on site.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:57 AM   #85
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I'm good with it all, except this. Income (high or low) shouldn't give anyone a break...either way.
What made me do this over my career was early on, seeing people who were very poor, get a ticket, and them sit there devastated, trying to figure out how they were going to get to eat and pay the ticket.

I think law enforcement needs to be done with compassion in mind.

Obviously if it was a poor person but what they were doing was ridiculous, crazy and obviously uncaring about repercussions, then it is what it is.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:59 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
What made me do this over my career was early on, seeing people who were very poor, get a ticket, and them sit there devastated, trying to figure out how they were going to get to eat and pay the ticket.

I think law enforcement needs to be done with compassion in mind.

Obviously if it was a poor person but what they were doing was ridiculous, crazy and obviously uncaring about repercussions, then it is what it is.
Makes sense.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:27 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
Simple physics says you are carrying more kinetic energy, reduced reaction time and greater braking time and distance with you at higher speeds. You can argue about it all day. You're simply wrong.
The "speed limit" does not affect kinetic energy!

We are speaking different languages. You've been taught that the sign on the side of the road affects physics. I've been taught changing an essential variable to the collision would affect it (for example - inertia, gravity, mass, density, velocity, etc.). Not the color of the grass next to the road, not the scenery of the mountains next to the road, and not a sign next to it that says a Nascar with a Pro driver and a model T with a blind old man can safely navigate this road at the same speed.

Reduced reaction time??? So you are saying that if you were parked with a red light on your hood and I said "hit the brakes when you see the light come on" it would take you less time than if you were travelling 30 MPH with the same test? Then even less going 50? Reaction time is not effected by speed either! Now the distance your car travels before your foot hits the brake, that is affected. But not reaction time.

Greater braking distance, sure. Assuming you aren't driving a car that can stop faster than 99% of the other traffic. But you know what happens when you assume.

You've been taught to say the things you say.

These are FACTS.

1. The words "speeding" and "speed limit" have no place in physics. They have their places in statistics and studies but not in physics.
2. A persons reaction time does not change with their velocity. Braking distance may change, the distance traveled before actually hitting the brakes may change, but reaction time does not. Being drunk affects reaction time, not increasing velocity.

I'm done here.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:22 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Unassailable View Post
Reduced reaction time??? So you are saying that if you were parked with a red light on your hood and I said "hit the brakes when you see the light come on" it would take you less time than if you were travelling 30 MPH with the same test? Then even less going 50? Reaction time is not effected by speed either! Now the distance your car travels before your foot hits the brake, that is affected. But not reaction time.
To clarify, I meant you have less time to react to situations at higher speeds.

Good talking to you.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:22 AM   #89
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Got caught speeding on BW8

Interesting, that idea. At speed, it seems to me that a larger percentage of neural resources could be consumed by the higher focus it takes to plan further ahead than it does at site-seeing speed. I would argue that reaction time MIGHT also be affected by cognition speed. Maybe people more accustomed to going extremely fast improve their reaction time by being more familiar with it. Just like a brand new driver is more impaired by having the radio on or a larger group of people in the car than a person with more experience...
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #90
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A lot of things play into the baseline perception and reaction time (reconstructionists symbolize it Tp/r), driving experience being one of them. It's also affected by how tired you are, how old you are, things like that. Medications can have a huge effect. And of course, alcohol, drugs of any sort (including weed) do affect Tp/r.

The best race car drivers are known to have a Tp/r of less than a second. Most average sober experienced drivers about 1.5 seconds. Very old people can get up to 3 seconds, 4 seconds, the same as a younger drunk person. Consequently, their licenses are eventually taken away, on many occasions.

Traffic engineers examine road curvatures, amount of traffic flowing, road surfaces, lines of sight, cross traffic, etc, in order to determine what the roadway should be safely traveled, and set the speed limits according to that data. Then they go back and study the traffic flow, and any accident data, and adjust those speed limits accordingly.

My main point on speed limits is this.

The speed limit of any road is set for a public safety reason. I don't care who someone says they are or that they're superman and have reflexes like a cat, people who routinely decide they don't have to follow traffic laws are the ones who wind up dead, and kill other people. ANYONE going 20 over the speed limit - even a race car driver - is not as safe as if he was going the speed limit. Kinetic energy is much higher, time to react to road hazards is lower, braking distances much higher. So I'm just not impressed by anyone who says "I can drive over the speed limit safely." No, you can't every time.

Look at the RIP threads here. They thought they could drive fast too, most of them.

Slow down, live life easy, grow old. I promise you, growing old beats the alternative.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:52 PM   #91
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Got caught speeding on BW8

I've been caught stealing;
once when I was 5...
I enjoy stealing.
It's just as simple as that.
Well, it's just a simple fact.
When I want something,
And I don't want to pay for it.

I walk right through the door.
Walk right through the door.
Hey all right! If I get by, it's mine.
Mine all mine!
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