MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 01-13-2013, 08:59 PM   #21
jimrad
Moderate pace forever .
 
jimrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Bucee's
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 6,880

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 7











Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday_rider View Post
That is correct! i believe 10 years from now people will think different about motorcycles made in China.
This could be it.

One of my old friends bought a Chinese bike with a side car. He took the entire bike apart after 3000 miles and rebuilt it with components where they could be put in. He said the Chinese metals were not as advanced and wore out fast. And they didn't have rubber washers or grommets where needed. Just a bunch of details missed. Not enough testing. R&D. Very crude finish.
__________________
SDRC.prez Safety Dedicated Rider
Cypress Area Riders
jimrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anyone been to the IOM TT? speedoeffect General Discussion (Moto Related) 9 11-07-2013 12:24 AM
IOM TT Stream SideVinder650 General Discussion (Moto Related) 8 06-02-2013 09:50 PM
IOM TT 2012 Grinchy Taking it to the Track 13 06-04-2012 12:08 AM
IOM TT 2010 Grinchy Taking it to the Track 3 06-05-2010 12:40 AM
IOM TT: you have to be just a little nuts Grinchy Taking it to the Track 33 07-25-2008 02:11 PM
Advertisement
Old 01-13-2013, 09:05 PM   #22
cychotic
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: texas
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 2,407

Experience: 1-3 months











User is banned

.

Last edited by cychotic; 01-13-2013 at 09:07 PM.
cychotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 09:23 PM   #23
sunday_rider
Senior Member
 
sunday_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW 77082
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 8,390

Experience: 1 year

Bike(s):
1098









10 years ago who would have thought that Chinese made iDevices would become the benchmark for cellphones, mp3 player and tablets...... Now, china produces more than 60% of the steel in the world and used in high tech buildings in Dubai and throughout Asia, they have accomplished this in less than 20 years! Can you imagine if China really put their mind to build big displacement bikes for the next 10 years? The only downside is that as of right now, large displacement motorcycles are not allowed to be ridden on public streets so this stops most manufacturers from investing in R&D and building big motorcycles for domestic consumption, but China is changing every day so who is to say that a year from now they learn that Honda is making a killing selling 600cc sport bikes and they want a piece of the pie, afterall there is a strategic reason why they purchased Benelli a year ago!
__________________
sunday_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 10:49 PM   #24
Romeo36
Mother****ersi'llkillyou
 
Romeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: stinkadena
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 5,354

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
sv650,rc51,gsxr750,6oo,sdg107









Send a message via AIM to Romeo36
reminds me of hyosung. cheap copies of suzuki
__________________
Riding a Duc is kind of like, you may get a cramp in your wrist, but you keep on trucking because it feels so good.
Romeo36 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 11:23 PM   #25
sunday_rider
Senior Member
 
sunday_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW 77082
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 8,390

Experience: 1 year

Bike(s):
1098









Quote:
Originally Posted by Romeo36 View Post
reminds me of hyosung. cheap copies of suzuki
They all have to start somewhere how they evolve from here is what ultimately will set them apart.
__________________
sunday_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 11:28 PM   #26
Tojo92
AKA Mongo
 
Tojo92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 5,174

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1994 Ducati 900 SS/SP
2003 Honda CRF450R motard
2002 Husqvarna NOX
2001 KTM Duke II






Yep. Everyone starts somewhere. Look at cars and South Korea. I think Hyundai will surpass Honda sooner than later. I'm lazy and didn't look, maybe they already have?

Issue with Chinese stuff though is the labor and that whole human rights issue. If you heard the stories my neighbor has told me visiting Chinese factories, you wouldn't believe it. We cannot compete with what they pay labor. Of course, most stuff there is a stolen design, versus true reverse engineering (different in my mind).

It's coming...
__________________
CMRA#665 (neighbor of the beast)
The Problem - Endurance
Tojo92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2013, 11:50 PM   #27
sunday_rider
Senior Member
 
sunday_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW 77082
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 8,390

Experience: 1 year

Bike(s):
1098









Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
Yep. Everyone starts somewhere. Look at cars and South Korea. I think Hyundai will surpass Honda sooner than later. I'm lazy and didn't look, maybe they already have?

Issue with Chinese stuff though is the labor and that whole human rights issue. If you heard the stories my neighbor has told me visiting Chinese factories, you wouldn't believe it. We cannot compete with what they pay labor. Of course, most stuff there is a stolen design, versus true reverse engineering (different in my mind).

It's coming...
The labor issue is mostly political than anything else. The famous NAFTA initiated by the United States regulates the minimum labor rate within the participating countries (USA, CANADA, MEXICO). In Mexico (Zone 1) the monthly salary for general labor is aprox $250 USD. The minimum labor rate in China is aprox $360 for general labor. There is a clear difference between China vs Mexico in minimum wage but how come we never hear any politicians complain about Mexican workers being paid 30% less than Chinese workers?

Human rights in China? well that is something they really need to work on but believe it or not the roles have reversed now, the Government is more scared of the population than the way around, it will take a very long time before getting to where the United States is but the change is here and hopefully they can eliminate censorship and allow true freedom of speech along the way.
__________________
sunday_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 12:03 AM   #28
Tojo92
AKA Mongo
 
Tojo92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 5,174

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1994 Ducati 900 SS/SP
2003 Honda CRF450R motard
2002 Husqvarna NOX
2001 KTM Duke II






Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday_rider View Post
The labor issue is mostly political than anything else. The famous NAFTA initiated by the United States regulates the minimum labor rate within the participating countries (USA, CANADA, MEXICO). In Mexico (Zone 1) the monthly salary for general labor is aprox $250 USD. The minimum labor rate in China is aprox $360 for general labor. There is a clear difference between China vs Mexico in minimum wage but how come we never hear any politicians complain about Mexican workers being paid 30% less than Chinese workers?

Human rights in China? well that is something they really need to work on but believe it or not the roles have reversed now, the Government is more scared of the population than the way around, it will take a very long time before getting to where the United States is but the change is here and hopefully they can eliminate censorship and allow true freedom of speech along the way.
just froze over I think.


Good points, no arguments here. Of course, I'm not checking facts.

__________________
CMRA#665 (neighbor of the beast)
The Problem - Endurance
Tojo92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 12:49 AM   #29
sunday_rider
Senior Member
 
sunday_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW 77082
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 8,390

Experience: 1 year

Bike(s):
1098









Here is some info for China employee labor rate, this chart doesnt show 2012-2013 numbers which had an 18% increase in labor rate across the board.

http://understand-china.com/?page_id=678
__________________
sunday_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:04 AM   #30
sunday_rider
Senior Member
 
sunday_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW 77082
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 8,390

Experience: 1 year

Bike(s):
1098









Here is the info for Mexico which is updated with 2013 info but it does not include total cost of hiring, it only shows what the general workers get on their paycheck, what is not included is their equivalent to social security and housing aid (infonavit) and medicare services all paid by the employer which represents almost 35% on top of their paycheck. The most important number is the salary from Zona A or zone 1, which includes the maquila cities and major cities of Mexico, a set rate of $57.46 Mexican Pesos per day is the minimum labor rate = $4.55 USD/day x 30 days = $136.50 US Dollars per month! In other zones the salary is a bit lower.

http://www.minimum-wage.org/international/en/Mexico/
__________________
sunday_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 10:30 AM   #31
Volfy
Fava Beans & a Chianti
 
Volfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SW Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 3,504

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
'15 300RR
'15 250XCF-W
'14 Trophy SE
'10 VFR1200F
'05 GSXR600 (track)

Member Garage





China today is like Taiwan was 25yrs ago - free market economy sanctioned by an autocratic government. Essentially, the gubmint says: "hey, make all the money you want, pay a bit of taxes, but don't fvck with my political power".

It's amazing how industrial a people can be when they channel all their energy into private enterprise, when they are not allowed to parttake in politics. Here we get bogged down with political infighting and gridlock. I love my freedom, but sometimes it comes at a price.
Volfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #32
cychotic
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: texas
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 2,407

Experience: 1-3 months











User is banned

.
cychotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 12:28 PM   #33
sunday_rider
Senior Member
 
sunday_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW 77082
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 8,390

Experience: 1 year

Bike(s):
1098









Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
I believe we can tell which are stolen (copies). In this case for CF Moto, Hyosung, etc, they are engineered to be their own. There is no copying. Reverse engineering is STILL engineering. 99.99% of designs in modern days will almost always be a derivative of another design. There is hardly any reinventing in these days.
+1 specially in two wheels industry, the latest innovations have all been about adding more electronics to the bike, but nothing really new out there!
__________________
sunday_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 12:42 PM   #34
wiayeman
TOONTOON BLACKNWHITEARMY
 
wiayeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Med Ctr
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,126

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
99 SV650 (race)x2
79 XS650
08 EX250R (race)
14 MSX125
88 YSR (race)






Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
Did Kawasaki reinvent the wheel each time they build a new bike? Define "copy"? Just accept that they are building motorcycles... Judge the product, not the price tag or what it "looks" like. I would be interested to see real test done on these things.
They literally copied the motor.

Not sure anyone was judging. A real test was done in Motorcyclist a couple of months ago.

I don't see it being competitive in the first couple of years. Farquhar's bikes were clocked at over 160mph.....
__________________
OOT
CMRA#645
Purple Helmets Endurance Team
wiayeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #35
Tojo92
AKA Mongo
 
Tojo92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 5,174

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1994 Ducati 900 SS/SP
2003 Honda CRF450R motard
2002 Husqvarna NOX
2001 KTM Duke II






Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
I believe we can tell which are stolen (copies). In this case for CF Moto, Hyosung, etc, they are engineered to be their own. There is no copying. Reverse engineering is STILL engineering. 99.99% of designs in modern days will almost always be a derivative of another design. There is hardly any reinventing in these days.
I will disagree on the "no copying" item. Think it is coincidence that certain Chinese motors swap major parts with bona fide Hondas?

Reacquaint yourself with the Suzuki SV650 motor, it's been copied by others.

Reinventing is out there. I just picked up an MZ1000S misfit. MZ designed engine; not like much else out there.
__________________
CMRA#665 (neighbor of the beast)
The Problem - Endurance
Tojo92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #36
cychotic
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: texas
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 2,407

Experience: 1-3 months











User is banned

.
cychotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:33 PM   #37
Tojo92
AKA Mongo
 
Tojo92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 5,174

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1994 Ducati 900 SS/SP
2003 Honda CRF450R motard
2002 Husqvarna NOX
2001 KTM Duke II






Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
They didn't copy. It IS a Suzuki motor. Pretty sure they bought the IP from Suzuki.
Pretty sure? OK.

Not the way I understood it at the time. My understanding is they had a contract to produce it for a while. After things got going, Suzuki was told to fly a kite and they moved forward with production.

I could be wrong, it's been a while and it's not anything that concerns me enough to keep up with.

Re-badging is when Kawasaki and Suzuki did it with dirt bikes like the DRZ400 and smaller cc bikes. Not the same.
__________________
CMRA#665 (neighbor of the beast)
The Problem - Endurance
Tojo92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #38
cychotic
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: texas
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 2,407

Experience: 1-3 months











User is banned

.
cychotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #39
cychotic
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: texas
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 2,407

Experience: 1-3 months











User is banned

.
cychotic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #40
Tojo92
AKA Mongo
 
Tojo92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 5,174

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1994 Ducati 900 SS/SP
2003 Honda CRF450R motard
2002 Husqvarna NOX
2001 KTM Duke II






Quote:
Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
Re-badging happens at all levels, not just the final product. Re-badging components like motor is not uncommon. Or in the electronics world, LCDs, processors, power supplies, etc, are often rebadged. It is nothing new. And no they didn't steal it, nor will they disclose that is bought from another company...
We gave different viewpoints here.
__________________
CMRA#665 (neighbor of the beast)
The Problem - Endurance
Tojo92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:25 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy