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Old 12-27-2012, 12:28 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by jimrad View Post
Oh ok. Sorry I misunderstood. Testing is safer. I am in. I will be there to see the testing. Now PM me the location. Thanks for the clarification.
no you're not invited, you ride a GSXR.. you'll win all the tests just by sitting on the side of the road
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #62
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I am being critical of promoting racing activities on the street. I haven't said word one about people who choose to ride at a spirited pace. It's using MH for the promotion of these events like your SMRs and this latest street race that is going to eventually cause problems for MH and the community.

There are many people on MH that know exactly what I am talking about. It's only a matter of time before you promote one of your events and somebody who has less luck or experience ends up dead.

Just think it through is all I am asking. Keep the street racing activities to PMs. It's smart. It's prudent.
Hey Curt, you havent been out with us since your first time, things has changed a bit since then..... none of our SMRs are posted as "spirited" rides anymore, we have slowed down a bit so 100% of our rides are at a "moderate" pace and sometimes "noob friendly", on top of that we have a long set of rules that everyone must follow in order to make the ride safer for every rider that decides to join us, so far we haven't had a single accident due to our negligence or unsafe practices!

And yes, we are keeping all the details strictly to PMs!
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:30 PM   #63
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #64
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There is a difference between the SMR and this. SMR has never been promoted as a "race" and each rider is excouraged to go at his/her pace. The few I've participated always end up splitting into two or more groups anyway. I'm usually in the second group, as I don't feel comfortable pushing limits on public roads.

This one is promoted explicited as a RACE and participants are encouraged to take their machinces to their max.

I believe everybody here is a adult and as such don't need to be lectured as to what constitute prudence, and between right and wrong. I've met Frank on a couple of occasions and know him to be a good person and a caring one. As a friend, I only offer caution. There are ways to do this safely, judiciously, and still be fun. Whatever you guys decide on, be safe.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:42 PM   #65
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What gets me is why someone has to chime in for something they don't want a part of. If you have a problem with it then don't read the thread and or comment on it with your opinion. If you want to "convince" people that something of this nature is bad then start your own thread. This is no more dangerous that getting onto I-45 or I-10 in normal traffic. I trust Frank to do his best to ensure that the riders involved are experienced enough to handle this situation, and to only involve capable people to assist. Like he said, this isn't just a "Hey, anyone with a litre bike get out here and see what you can do." As far as "fast" street rides are concerned they are all dangerous, which is the #1 reason I don't do them with the exception of the occasional SMR. I have nothing to prove on the street, that's why I have a CMRA license and a race bike.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:43 PM   #66
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Thanks Lucar. That is the sweetest thing someone has said to me all day.

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:43 PM   #67
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I've led and been part of many spirited rides in the past. Over time a few things happened. Most obvious is that we've lost friends or had friends experience major injuries. Less obvious is getting an understanding of what happens on these rides not in the front, but in the middle of the pack and towards the back. The front runners are often guys with track experience and sometimes racers. Unless they have bad luck through debris on the street, cars being stupid, animals or an equipment failure they are less likely to do down. The front runners are not the concern.

The problem lies with the new people who join the rides with their shiny new liter bikes and 600's who think they can run with the fast guys. They don't know about the years on the street, track and racing experience, not to mention the dot racing tires, upgraded brakes, steering dampers. trick suspensions and all the other things the experiences guys install.

It's the inexperienced guys with the egos that get hurt. Promoting high speed SMRs, street racing (calling it testing if you must) draws the inexperienced people out and that's where the problem exists.

On the next SMR, ride from the back of the pack to the front. Watch the riding styles. Look at the gear. Look at the equipment. Consider that those are the folks trying to keep up.

I'm not bashing the spirited riders or the rides. I'm trying to bring more awareness to the range of people these events attract and the potential for a horrendous outcome.

It's just something to consider.

-Curt

Last edited by maxgs; 12-27-2012 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volfy View Post
There is a difference between the SMR and this. SMR has never been promoted as a "race" and each rider is excouraged to go at his/her pace. The few I've participated always end up splitting into two or more groups anyway. I'm usually in the second group, as I don't feel comfortable pushing limits on public roads.

This one is promoted explicited as a RACE and participants are encouraged to take their machinces to their max.

I believe everybody here is a adult and as such don't need to be lectured as to what constitute prudence, and between right and wrong. I've met Frank on a couple of occasions and know him to be a good person and a caring one. As a friend, I only offer caution. There are ways to do this safely, judiciously, and still be fun. Whatever you guys decide on, be safe.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:52 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
I've led and been part of many spirited rides in the past. Over time a few things happened. Most obvious is that we've lost friends or had friends experience major injuries. Less obvious is getting an understanding of what happens on these rides not in the front, but in the middle of the pack and towards the back. The front runners are often guys with track experience and sometimes racers.

It's the inexperienced guys with the egos that get hurt. Promoting high speed SMRs, street racing (calling it testing if you must) draws the inexperienced people out and that's where the problem exists.

On the next SMR, ride from the back of the pack to the front. Watch the riding styles. Look at the gear. Look at the equipment. Consider that those are the folks trying to keep up.

I'm not bashing the spirited riders or the rides. I'm trying to bring more awareness to the range of people there events attract and the potential for a horrendous outcome.

It's just something to consider.

-Curt
I've led and been part of many spirited rides in the past - I've been riding with MH members for almost 2 years and I have never seen you lead a ride.. neither post one.. sorry

The front runners are often guys with track experience and sometimes racers. - I've lead about 25 rides this year, in which nobody has ever gone down nor gotten injured. I posses no track experience and I am not a racer.

Look at the gear. Look at the equipment - This is posted on Rides OP, these are prequesites just to be able to attend the ride. every one is encourage by leaders and helpers to ride their pace.. they will be waited on, no one will be left behind.. do you ever read the SMR OPs ??

I'm not bashing the spirited riders or the rides - it sounds more like you have to comment negatively on what's going on on this thread. You're opinion is valued as a MH member, but it sounds more as if you are "hating" on it more than giving "constructive critism"
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:57 PM   #70
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I'd be down if this is going to be a park and watch kinda thing... If it's on the roll then I cant keep up
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:00 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
I've led and been part of many spirited rides in the past. Over time a few things happened. Most obvious is that we've lost friends or had friends experience major injuries. Less obvious is getting an understanding of what happens on these rides not in the front, but in the middle of the pack and towards the back. The front runners are often guys with track experience and sometimes racers. Unless they have bad luck through debris on the street, cars being stupid, animals or an equipment failure they are less likely to do down. The front runners are not the concern.

The problem lies with the new people who join the rides with their shiny new liter bikes and 600's who think they can run with the fast guys. They don't know about the years on the street, track and racing experience, not to mention the dot racing tires, upgraded brakes, steering dampers. trick suspensions and all the other things the experiences guys install.

It's the inexperienced guys with the egos that get hurt. Promoting high speed SMRs, street racing (calling it testing if you must) draws the inexperienced people out and that's where the problem exists.

On the next SMR, ride from the back of the pack to the front. Watch the riding styles. Look at the gear. Look at the equipment. Consider that those are the folks trying to keep up.

I'm not bashing the spirited riders or the rides. I'm trying to bring more awareness to the range of people these events attract and the potential for a horrendous outcome.

It's just something to consider.

-Curt
I do agree with you that we have to pay attention to the riders in the back and i am sorry to hear about your past experience with your spirited rides. We as a group understand the problem and in an effort to prevent that we have rules, and to make things more controlled, when we have new riders joining our SMRs we usually split into 2 or 3 groups as we see necessary so this way the second group doesnt even have a chance to chase the first group

Yes, it is always the inexperienced guys with egos that usually get hurt, and the fact is that it really doesnt matter if he rode with us or with another group, he will get hurt no matter where or who he rides with.

You can check on my recent SMRs, most of the time i am the volunteer sweeper, i do this not because i enjoy the slow pace, i do this because i want to be able to spot the problem before it happens. In other words we have considered a few points that you just mentioned here, and i appreciate your honest concern about our SMRs but like i said before, contrary to what many people thinks, our SMRs are the safest if you look at the incident records.

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:07 PM   #72
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I have been there before. From June of 2008...

While I claimed to be a noob, I'd already done over 20 track days been an high performance driving instructor and led and or participated on many, many rides.

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=57148

I've been on a few group rides over the past six months and while admittedly I'm still a noob, I've observed some great things happening each and every time I go out. Prior to the start of the ride, I've listened to group ride leaders talk through the rules and expectations for the ride. Each ride leader seems to have their own mental check list of the things they review; it varies from leader to leader and sometimes from ride to ride. I've found these rules to be so valuable that I decided to write them down in hopes that we can better and more consistently set expectations and rules both when rides are organized and at the beginning of each ride.

It would be tremendously valuable to have forum members review this list and add, subtract or clarify these rules based on their personal experience. If you have the time, please take a look. We can all benefit from each others experience and wisdom. I will consolidate and redistribute the edits and recommendations.

Group Ride Rules and Expectations

1. Each rider must have helmet, jacket, gloves. Boots are highly recommended. Riders without the appropriate gear will be asked to ride on their own.

2. Everybody must ride within their own limits. If you get scared, nervous, or anxious while riding, you are going too fast and you are a hazard to yourself as well as those around you. Slow down before you go down or hurt a fellow rider.

3. Group rides are not a motorcycle rider training tool. Each rider is personally responsible for their own actions.

4. Throughout the ride, there is no passing on the right nor is passing permitted in turns.

5. Riders will ride in staggered formation on highways & main streets and single file in the back country and around curves & bends.

6. In the backcountry as well as curves and bends, riders will open gaps to at least 2 seconds to the motorcycle in front of them.

7. Running wide or out of your lane is a safety hazard for you and the riders around you. This is a clear indication that you are riding beyond your capabilities. Slow down before you go down or hurt a fellow rider.

8. Dragging pegs, exhaust, or any other portion of the bike is a safety issue for you and those around you. Don’t do it.

9. Every ride will have at least one designated leader and designated sweeper. Sweepers have responsibility to ensure all riders stay together and remain accounted for throughout the ride.

10. Leaders will commonly display hand signals throughout the ride. They may include standard hand signals for left and right hand turns, per DOT regulations; a raised fist for "stop"; a hand extended down or patting down for "slow down"; tapping the top of your helmet for a police car sighting; and pointing with hand or foot at dangerous rode debris.

11. It is customary to repeat hand signals you see in order to pass information to the riders behind you.

12. While stunting and wheelies are strongly discouraged due to your safety and the safety of your fellow riders, if you must, all stunts are to be performed exclusively in the leftmost lane on multilane roads or oncoming traffic lane on two lane roads.

13. All rides will have a "no man left behind" policy, meaning the group will never leave a rider behind or stranded. The designated sweeper will confirm that all riders are accounted for with the leader at each stop.

14. Riders who are new to their bike, have less than 6 months sport bike riding experience, or are new to the route will be ask to ride together as the UAC (Up and Coming) group. The UAC group will be assigned an experienced leader and sweeper.

15. It is not unusual for a large group ride to have at least one bike related incident. Ensure that incident does not involve you.

16. Riding two up is discouraged.

17. Riders will top off their gas tanks before kick-stands-up. The group will not stop for gas stations except for the designated rest stop areas.

18. Riders will check tire pressures and tire condition before they get to the meeting place. If you need tire pressure advice, ask beforehand.

19. And, again, a reminder: everybody must ride within their own limits. If you get scared, nervous, or anxious while riding, you are going too fast and you are a hazard to yourself as well as those around you. Slow down before you go down or hurt a fellow rider.


Please post your additions, edits, and recommendations. Thanks!
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #73
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I'd be down if this is going to be a park and watch kinda thing... If it's on the roll then I cant keep up
will pm you details and procedures next week.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
I

Group Ride Rules and Expectations

1. Each rider must have helmet, jacket, gloves. Boots are highly recommended. Riders without the appropriate gear will be asked to ride on their own.

2. Everybody must ride within their own limits. If you get scared, nervous, or anxious while riding, you are going too fast and you are a hazard to yourself as well as those around you. Slow down before you go down or hurt a fellow rider.

3. Group rides are not a motorcycle rider training tool. Each rider is personally responsible for their own actions.

4. Throughout the ride, there is no passing on the right nor is passing permitted in turns.

5. Riders will ride in staggered formation on highways & main streets and single file in the back country and around curves & bends.

6. In the backcountry as well as curves and bends, riders will open gaps to at least 2 seconds to the motorcycle in front of them.

7. Running wide or out of your lane is a safety hazard for you and the riders around you. This is a clear indication that you are riding beyond your capabilities. Slow down before you go down or hurt a fellow rider.

8. Dragging pegs, exhaust, or any other portion of the bike is a safety issue for you and those around you. Donít do it.

9. Every ride will have at least one designated leader and designated sweeper. Sweepers have responsibility to ensure all riders stay together and remain accounted for throughout the ride.

10. Leaders will commonly display hand signals throughout the ride. They may include standard hand signals for left and right hand turns, per DOT regulations; a raised fist for "stop"; a hand extended down or patting down for "slow down"; tapping the top of your helmet for a police car sighting; and pointing with hand or foot at dangerous rode debris.

11. It is customary to repeat hand signals you see in order to pass information to the riders behind you.

12. While stunting and wheelies are strongly discouraged due to your safety and the safety of your fellow riders, if you must, all stunts are to be performed exclusively in the leftmost lane on multilane roads or oncoming traffic lane on two lane roads.

13. All rides will have a "no man left behind" policy, meaning the group will never leave a rider behind or stranded. The designated sweeper will confirm that all riders are accounted for with the leader at each stop.

14. Riders who are new to their bike, have less than 6 months sport bike riding experience, or are new to the route will be ask to ride together as the UAC (Up and Coming) group. The UAC group will be assigned an experienced leader and sweeper.

15. It is not unusual for a large group ride to have at least one bike related incident. Ensure that incident does not involve you.

16. Riding two up is discouraged.

17. Riders will top off their gas tanks before kick-stands-up. The group will not stop for gas stations except for the designated rest stop areas.

18. Riders will check tire pressures and tire condition before they get to the meeting place. If you need tire pressure advice, ask beforehand.

19. And, again, a reminder: everybody must ride within their own limits. If you get scared, nervous, or anxious while riding, you are going too fast and you are a hazard to yourself as well as those around you. Slow down before you go down or hurt a fellow rider.


Please post your additions, edits, and recommendations. Thanks!

This is good, I like it, except number 16. as 75% of my riding is 2up
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:20 PM   #75
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I thought the PROS has done this test already. Same rider on two bikes. If this is your zx10 vs my 1000rr then this is just a drag racing event, right?
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:24 PM   #76
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I thought the PROS has done this test already. Same rider on two bikes. If this is your zx10 vs my 1000rr then this is just a drag racing event, right?
and there we have it ladies and gents.. another lost soul..
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:26 PM   #77
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and there we have it ladies and gents.. another lost soul..
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #78
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I thought the PROS has done this test already. Same rider on two bikes. If this is your zx10 vs my 1000rr then this is just a drag racing event, right?
Yes, the pros and most motorcycle publications has done it before, we all just read about them most of the time, the idea is to do something different, instead of just reading maybe get a few friends together and do some testing ourselves, it is not drag race because we understand that launching the bike is a process that could involve some risks to the rider and spectator, instead what we have in mind is doing 2nd/3rd gear roll ons, a very simple process that doesnt involve any risks unless you are on a turbo or supercharged bike, which in our case, most of the bikes are in stock form and normally aspirated.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:40 PM   #79
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Quote:
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Yes, the pros and most motorcycle publications has done it before, we all just read about them most of the time, the idea is to do something different, instead of just reading maybe get a few friends together and do some testing ourselves, it is not drag race because we understand that launching the bike is a process that could involve some risks to the rider and spectator, instead what we have in mind is doing 2nd/3rd gear roll ons, a very simple process that doesnt involve any risks unless you are on a turbo or supercharged bike, which in our case, most of the bikes are in stock form and normally aspirated.

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:42 PM   #80
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It isn't smart to do it like this.
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