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Old 02-20-2007, 12:13 PM   #101
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Yea, I personally believe in micro-evolution, it can be observed everywhere but there is a distinct difference between micro and macro evolution as can be concluded by the use of the two terms...
so now we're debating micro vs. macro evolution? :confused2
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:16 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
i think astrophysics is out of my league, but would you care to explain?
Well Big Bang theory insists that basically, the universe began as nothing and one expanded exponentially into a bunch of somethings (protons /neutrons) but Newton's First Law asserts that "energy can neither be created or destroyed". Law trumps theory.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:17 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
so now we're debating micro vs. macro evolution? :confused2
No but I was letting you know that I don't disagree with the idea that micro-evolution is indeed a reality...
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:19 PM   #104
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According to the bible, if you don't go to church and praise his name then simply believeing in him is not good enough. You are suppose to go to church and sing his name in song and praise him. Also you are not a good christian if you are not spreading his word to non believers and the uninformed.
Let's see where they say that in the bible. :icon_bigg
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:20 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Well Big Bang theory insists that basically, the universe began as nothing and one expanded exponentially into a bunch of somethings (protons /neutrons) but Newton's First Law asserts that "energy can neither be created or destroyed". Law trumps theory.
The only big bang theory explanation i can really remember is Bill Bryson's (not a great scientist, but wrote a great science book) because he said it in a way i could remember i guess. He said that the explanation is that all of the matter in existence was condensed into a very very small area, maybe smaller than an atom, so of course it's very dense, and then it expands and you know the rest. i've never heard that the big bang came from nowhere, but this is the only explanation i've heard that even covered the topic of where it came from.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:23 PM   #106
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No but I was letting you know that I don't disagree with the idea that micro-evolution is indeed a reality...
Okay, so you don't back "young-earth creationism"?
I'm not completely familiar with all of these terms yet, I'm just going over wiki and now i have to go to class.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:29 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
The only big bang theory explanation i can really remember is Bill Bryson's (not a great scientist, but wrote a great science book) because he said it in a way i could remember i guess. He said that the explanation is that all of the matter in existence was condensed into a very very small area, maybe smaller than an atom, so of course it's very dense, and then it expands and you know the rest. i've never heard that the big bang came from nowhere, but this is the only explanation i've heard that even covered the topic of where it came from.
The theories varie from source to source but generally you are right. The Big Bang is generally cited as saying that "the universe consisted of a compact ball of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons, electrons, and their anti-particles -- plus radiation." But for the bubble to have been smaller than an atom an to have expanded, more needed to have been created and therefore contradict a law of thermodynamics...
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:29 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Well Big Bang theory insists that basically, the universe began as nothing and one expanded exponentially into a bunch of somethings (protons /neutrons) but Newton's First Law asserts that "energy can neither be created or destroyed". Law trumps theory.
You are a bit misinformed on this.

First lets address your idea of scientific theory. Scientific theories are based on scientific observation and scientific facts to determine the outcome of events. Not to be confused with Hypothesis which could be based on loose ideas to initiate an investigation. So, we got that cleared up. Onward....

Next, the big bang theory does not state that the universe was created from nothing. It states that the universe was a small mass of energy that had X (this is the questionable part) initiate an action that caused the energy to expand. There are many ideas based around how this all started so we could go on for days... this is the simple explanation. Take it as far as you would like.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:31 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Okay, so you don't back "young-earth creationism"?
I'm not completely familiar with all of these terms yet, I'm just going over wiki and now i have to go to class.
Never heard of it so i dunno...
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:31 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
The theories varie from source to source but generally you are right. The Big Bang is generally cited as saying that "the universe consisted of a compact ball of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons, electrons, and their anti-particles -- plus radiation." But for the bubble to have been smaller than an atom an to have expanded, more needed to have been created and therefore contradict a law of thermodynamics...
It started as unidentified energy. Although the first elements to appear would of course be hydrogen and helium. Then we had oxygen which lead to water and so on an so forth. Then Carbon was introduced and the basic structure to life as we know it was put into place.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:33 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
so now we're debating micro vs. macro evolution? :confused2
As above, as below.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:33 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
You are a bit misinformed on this.

First lets address your idea of scientific theory. Scientific theories are based on scientific observation and scientific facts to determine the outcome of events. Not to be confused with Hypothesis which could be based on loose ideas to initiate an investigation. So, we got that cleared up. Onward....

Next, the big bang theory does not state that the universe was created from nothing. It states that the universe was a small mass of energy that had X (this is the questionable part) initiate an action that caused the energy to expand. There are many ideas based around how this all started so we could go on for days... this is the simple explanation. Take it as far as you would like.
Or perhaps I mis-stated...and as far as your theory expanation, it is still theory, why is it not law? Because it is subject to challenge....
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:36 PM   #113
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Here, quick explanation:

Ten to twenty billion years ago, the universe consisted of a compact ball of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons, electrons, and their anti-particles -- plus radiation. There were no differentiated planets, stars, suns, galaxies.

Five billion years ago, the compact hydrogen soup blasted apart with huge force, matter was hurled in all directions, and the universe doubled in size. This expansion of the universe is still going on.

The blast caused a major decrease in the density and temperature of the universe after which no new particles could be formed. Then the particle wars began. Particles and anti-particles fought it out in a frenzy of self-destruction. The universe was left with a greatly reduced collection of positively-charged nuclei and negatively-charged electrons in a vast plasma soup.

Although plasma (ionized gas) rarely occurs on Earth's electrically neutral surface, 99% of the matter of the Universe still exists in a plasma state.

The Big Bang produced the light elements hydrogen and helium. Heavier elements are usually produced in the violent processes associated with the death of stars.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:41 PM   #114
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Or perhaps I mis-stated...and as far as your theory expanation, it is still theory, why is it not law? Because it is subject to challenge....
Exactly, but it is not trumped by Newtons law. Newtons law is observed.

My question is what caused the initial spark? As we also know... an object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. What was this force that disturbed this dormant energy? And, is it possible there are many possible masses of energy expanding? Which could mean several universes exist.... and are we expanding into and through each other? And as we expand further from the source how does this affect time and our perception of time? And if there are seceral intersecting universes how does this affect gravity and time? It could go on forever.....

.... and we never once brought up if we are discussing this in the context of particle theory or string theory?
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:43 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Here, quick explanation:

Ten to twenty billion years ago, the universe consisted of a compact ball of hydrogen -- protons, neutrons, electrons, and their anti-particles -- plus radiation. There were no differentiated planets, stars, suns, galaxies.

Five billion years ago, the compact hydrogen soup blasted apart with huge force, matter was hurled in all directions, and the universe doubled in size. This expansion of the universe is still going on.

The blast caused a major decrease in the density and temperature of the universe after which no new particles could be formed. Then the particle wars began. Particles and anti-particles fought it out in a frenzy of self-destruction. The universe was left with a greatly reduced collection of positively-charged nuclei and negatively-charged electrons in a vast plasma soup.

Although plasma (ionized gas) rarely occurs on Earth's electrically neutral surface, 99% of the matter of the Universe still exists in a plasma state.

The Big Bang produced the light elements hydrogen and helium. Heavier elements are usually produced in the violent processes associated with the death of stars.
The funny thing is.... that it was only a 1% variable in the matter and antimatter that initiated all of this. Otherwise what would we be.... So, was that the work of ?
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:22 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Exactly, but it is not trumped by Newtons law. Newtons law is observed.

My question is what caused the initial spark? As we also know... an object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. What was this force that disturbed this dormant energy? And, is it possible there are many possible masses of energy expanding? Which could mean several universes exist.... and are we expanding into and through each other? And as we expand further from the source how does this affect time and our perception of time? And if there are seceral intersecting universes how does this affect gravity and time? It could go on forever.....

.... and we never once brought up if we are discussing this in the context of particle theory or string theory?
Without delving to deep into astrophysics, because I am in short supply of knowledge on the subject...looking at the big bang at face value, there are plenty of unanswered questions about things which act as support for the the big bang theory. for example, What exactly is a singularity? or these as presented by a member of NASA:

Quote:
"Big Bang does not explain many things, including the uneven distribution of matter that results in "voids" and "clumps," or the retrograde motion that must violate the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum. Furthermore, the Big Bang does not address the primary question at hand, "where did everything come from?" Did nothing explode? How did this explosion cause order, while every explosion observed in recorded history causes disorder and disarray? "
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:24 PM   #117
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The funny thing is.... that it was only a 1% variable in the matter and antimatter that initiated all of this. Otherwise what would we be.... So, was that the work of ?
Don't know, but neither do the leading minds in the scientific community so I'm not too bad off
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:38 PM   #118
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Don't know, but neither do the leading minds in the scientific community so I'm not too bad off
Yeah, I am neither for against this theory... I have just read and watched some stuff on it.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:53 PM   #119
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Yeah, I am neither for against this theory... I have just read and watched some stuff on it.
So what do you think about micro vs. macro evolution or creationism vs. evolution theory...I'm a lil more knowledgeable when it comes to anthropology which will make for a better more thorough discussion...
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:18 PM   #120
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So what do you think about micro vs. macro evolution or creationism vs. evolution theory...I'm a lil more knowledgeable when it comes to anthropology which will make for a better more thorough discussion...
As with the holes in the Big bang Theory, I believe there are holes in the Theory of Evolution. Does evolution happen? Of course, everything has to evolve to some degree to survive. Did we evolve from bacteria and apes? No idea, I see alot of gaps in the histrory of human development. So, did a meteor crash with some strain of bacteria that mutated ape DNA and was the catalyst for human development? Maybe... Or, possibly we where dropped off by aliens as a big experiment. Currently our history is so clouded that I think it is difficult to make any rational decission. I certainly do not believe the Earth is only 6000 years old and we were created from sand or however the fairy tale goes with that interpretation. i of course understand there are many ways to view what is layed out by Judeo - Christians.

My honest stance on all of this is I am Agnostic. I only began to realize this a couple of years ago. I believe as humans we do not posses the capability to truely understand if there is a or not and it is a waste of time to argue for or against it. My position is to exist within my own Microcosm to support the Macrocosm. Do I take steps to explore my own personal temple? Yes, will this lead me to , a or make me a ? I have no idea but I think this is part of our existance. And, I have hope that our existance is more then a short time on a lonely planet but, do I do not think I posses the ability to know that untill the time comes. Do I fear this time? No, because I do not entertain religion that places judgement on me.


Oh, and Karma is a ! :laughing6
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