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Old 10-06-2012, 10:16 PM   #1
ModernDiesel
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Ceramic coating, tune, turbo. Input?

First of all just some background...engineering degree from Oklahoma State, 8 years of diesel motor tech work. I understand the mechanics of the fuel injected 750 but not the ECM tuning. We ceramic coat manifolds, exhaust systems, turbo charger's (both compressor and turbine housings), up pipes etc. so I've got some background on this . Oh yeah for reference I'm 6' 0" 180, always ride with big back pack and an extra helmet hangin so loaded its more like 205lns probably. Not light.

I just picked up a bone stock 2006 z750s and have the ability to ceramic coat. Bike is black and I have black and white available. Probably going to do my shop's name/logo in white over black.

Anyways, rambling. Did y'all know that up to 35% of power is lost through heat dissipation? As our engines combust they take in air and force it out. The more heat that is lost to radiation off of the head, manifolds, block and exhaust the less power you have. Containing all of the combustions heat inside the block, head and exhaust system force it to exit faster, increasing CFM on intake side.

I'm buying an aftermarket pipe, air filter upgrade, power commander this week and should be doing the coating next week.

Question time

What tuning should I run? Power Commander? Something else suggested?

Will I need to make sure the tune should take into account the ceramic coating and the new pipe?

Is this new injector territory? If not, can I upgrade anyways?

When I turbo charge it will I need to step up my injectors?

What will my internals hold up to in manifold pressure before needing head studs?

Only want to start at 5lbs and work my way up. The Bike will hit 150 right now about 500 shy of redline. I want to get the bike up in the 170mph range but ill probably dial that up through sprockets until I peak at my max comfort zone (it starts to get rough at 150 on my sexy exposed bike.. Stock the Zed should be about 100hp even. Goal is at least 130hp with tune, intake, turbo, pipe and ceramic coating. Ill just keep pushing it from there and see how it goes. Results will all be dyno checked and of course shared with y'all. Have a buddy over at G-force where we dyno our trucks.

I'm not crazy, or a stupid noob daydreaming. Ive built track Duramax's, powerstrokes and Cummins. we do this stuff all day at my shop. A tech of mine spent after hours nights with me swapping a Cummins 12 valve into his F-250. I have a co pound turbo setup for our race truck. Regular cab short bed Ram 1500 w/ compounds (78mm small side, 88mm big boy). It's an easy mock up. Due tithe lack of fairing I think this turbo is going to be very easy. Have access to pipe benders, piping won't be an issue. Keep posted and please chime in.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:44 PM   #2
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:49 AM   #3
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What tuning should I run? Power Commander? Something else suggested?
Power commander is very capable along with an aftermarket MAP sensor, you will need the add-on ignition module when you do the turbo, so you will be able to the ignition timing to eliminate the detonation that you are so ever-comfortable with.

Will I need to make sure the tune should take into account the ceramic coating and the new pipe?
There are different pre-programmed maps available through Dynojet's website. They should have a map that will work with whichever pipe you choose. The ceramic coating, no matter how much you seem to adore it, will not make any significant diffenece in your fueling needs.

Is this new injector territory? If not, can I upgrade anyways?
Not even close. You can if you want to, especially seeing as you are planning on running forced induction/fuel management.

When I turbo charge it will I need to step up my injectors?
Most likely, depending on your power output. there are general guidelines for injector sizing based upon power output.

What will my internals hold up to in manifold pressure before needing head studs?
There's no correct answer to that question. You should know that head studs are no magic end-all. Head studs, main studs, rods, pistons, and other parts will need to be upgraded depending on manifold pressure, intended purpose, durability, and other factors. The head gasket and sealing ability almost always seem to be the first point of combustion leakage and power loss, so it would make sense to make a reasonable effort to increase your cylinder sealing by using head studs and a stronger gasket. If you dig into the motor, you may consider o-ringing the head, or fire-ringing the head/block (i'm sure you're familiar with what i'm talking about with all your race truck experience). You should know about static compression adjustments for forced induction applications, so there's no need to walk down that path.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:00 AM   #4
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Oh and that rear tire has been produced since 2005, so you might want to check the date of manufacture. Anything made pre-2008 should be replaced.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:44 AM   #5
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you have an actual engineering degree and you work as a diesel tech?
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #6
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I own the place but I hate the phones. And yes I do. Structural engineering. Had thermo, hydraulics, strength of materials etc. when I finished college my then wife at the very last minute refused to sign my papers (headed to the Marines as a Lt). That was always my number one want in life, to serve. So instead, since the construction market has been for so long I did what I'd been doing as a hobby for 6 years and opened a diesel performance shop. There 's 5 of us. Proud to say I am employ a handful of crazy veterans.

Degrees are great but you have to do what you have a passion for.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:56 PM   #7
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Oh and thanks for that killer reply Squanto.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:48 PM   #8
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Here is a cliff notes version for you...


With stock injectors, you'll need to use an FMU, most common and reliable is the Begi unit..(although they are still not that reliable but...not really any other decent options). You will have to install Ts into the fuel rails for the plumbing to the FMU, fuel pressure gauge. You can get those Ts from RCC turbos in Canada. The FMU will raise your fuel pressure to 120+ psi under boost, up from a stock 39-43 psi... This is how you are able to get by with stock injectors, their duty cycle will be high as it is. You are going to need a fuel pump. A Walbro 255lph will be sufficient. Just remove the stock pump and run the Walbro as an inline.

The power commander will be fine for tuning the system. Remember the ECU will have no idea there is boost as there is no MAP sensors or MAF sensors on these Speed Density style ECUs... So once you select your boost level, build your fuel map for it, that's it, stop there and don't mess with the boost any more.. If you raise the boost, the ECU will not know and you will be lean and it will melt pistons.

You will want to run a T3 style turbo, or T3/T4 hybrid at the largest on a 750. Make the header as short as you can to keep the turbo as high as possible for good drain back..you don't want to mess with scavenge pumps on these things. Try to run an external wastegate. Boost control will be paramount here if you want this thing to live. External gates have way better control, you will likely need to port the gate port in the turbine housing to keep the boost below 10 psi.

Key things here are:

*strong fuel supply
*exact boost control--7psi or less on stock compression
*correct oil feed to the turbo and effective drain back
*conservative timing and rich fuel curve.

You should be able to put 7 psi of boost through a bone stock motor IF you have all of the ancillaries correct... I would expect a 60-70hp gain depending on the size turbo you use.

Remember this is no diesel, it is not forgiving like a diesel....it will melt with a quickness and there is not a lot of motors/parts laying around for those bikes so if you kill the block/head, you will be spending some serious money.

Lastly, you have no way of controlling IATs since there is no intercooler. You could add meth injection and I'd recommend it. Make sure you tune the bike with the meth active because it will act as a fuel source.

Have fun with the project, it should be neat.

I have only scratched the surface of some of the particulars, I figure you should know most of the basics.

Keep us posted!
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:26 AM   #9
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Much appreciated. Lets get more specific on turbos then...I mean a 5.9L Cummins runs a T4 flanged turbo (62mm turbine). It's all about wheel sizes. What size (ball park) inducer and exducer am I talking about here? I can buy a brand new garret unit built any spec, and at cost (yay for accounts). Point me in the right direction. A ball bearing turbo will be dirty cheap in that size as compared to day a GT42R
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:45 PM   #10
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I am not sure on your specifics for wheels but, remember you don't have much motor at all to spool it.. Even a little GT28 would be good. I always liked the Garrett T3 "Super 60" for small motors. It will make 300hp at about 18-19 psi on a low compression Busa motor.


For a common comparison, a ball bearing GT35 won't even start spooling on a Busa until 7000 rpms and fully spooled by 8000-8500..... Pretty much only good for drag/land speed racing... It would suck on the street. And that's on 1300cc.

A Mitsubishi 16G is another great little turbo for sport bikes but it needs to be modded for external gate, otherwise you'll never get the boost low enough.. They boost creep past 10 psi easy..

I run an RCC STG 2, plain bearing turbo, T3/T4. I want to say its a 61mm inlet. It is the perfect turbo. It starts making boost at 4000 and fully spooled by 6500... It spools very quick/easy, even at part throttle. I run a 14.5 lb spring and its straight up nasty on the spool. Heavier spring, quicker/easier the spool up, even at part throttle... I made as high as 474hp with this little turbo on a low compression 1300. It's probably a litttttle big for a 750 but.... It may work ok.. I think a T3 Super 60 Garrett would work best for you.

Good luck on the project.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:52 AM   #11
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Garrett GT1241???

Might have found my baby. Puts me in the ballpark for suppored HP. will allow me to tweak with various wastegate setups and water/meth
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:52 AM   #12
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maybe the 15.48 I just need to do some math to get this perfect. Look at my exhaust flow CFM at least as a start
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:17 AM   #13
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please excuse the thread jack...but i need a diesel tech...please pm me your shop contact info.

thanks!
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post

Remember this is no diesel, it is not forgiving like a diesel....it will melt with a quickness and there is not a lot of motors/parts laying around for those bikes so if you kill the block/head, you will be spending some serious money.


Really informative post. You are right that the Z750s is limited on available parts but the 750 engine is a sleeved Z1000. If he blows up the 750 he can easily upgrade to the Z1000 engine.

I'll keep an eye on this thread. My brother has the same bike, I hope everything works out for you.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowposer View Post
please excuse the thread jack...but i need a diesel tech...please pm me your shop contact info.

thanks!
PM sent!
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bun1t View Post
Really informative post. You are right that the Z750s is limited on available parts but the 750 engine is a sleeved Z1000. If he blows up the 750 he can easily upgrade to the Z1000 engine.

I'll keep an eye on this thread. My brother has the same bike, I hope everything works out for you.
definitely never approached this motor with any comparisons to diesel. about the only comparison i see is that at 60* and under it likes to be loped until warm.

that aside, awesome news on the engine. i had been wondering where this 750's roots came from. can you point me in the direction of a tech manual or at least some spec sheets?
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModernDiesel View Post
definitely never approached this motor with any comparisons to diesel. about the only comparison i see is that at 60* and under it likes to be loped until warm.

that aside, awesome news on the engine. i had been wondering where this 750's roots came from. can you point me in the direction of a tech manual or at least some spec sheets?
Sorry, I never went far into research on it. I believe the z750/Z1K engine is based off the old ZX9R engine. You might find more info on some of the z1000 forums.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:50 PM   #18
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-1/+2 sprockets will be here Wednesday. Want to have some wheelie fun with the bike while i piece together the turbo setup. back to stock when the turbo is piped. Got a price on ceramic coating (wet, using Techline) for 300. One of my customers is donating a T3 flanged turbo. Haven't seen it yet and don't know the numbers, but we will see if its useful. Hope so. If its dirty ill rebuild it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:09 PM   #19
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:04 PM   #20
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-1/+2 and RK GXW gold going on tonight.
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