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Old 10-02-2012, 10:51 AM   #121
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:53 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by cychotic View Post
You can probably track them on facebook instead of chasing them...
That's one reason I don't have facebook, another is that I'm a grown man
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:54 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by thine99 View Post
Yes law enforcement should be able to chase. Spike strips/pit maneuver I would disagree with to some extent.
Why?
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Call me crazy but I put a high value on human life.
You're crazy. Most people aren't worth their chemical value.
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I realize they're criminals but still, everyone makes a decision at least once.
Criminals don't make stupid choices just once, and frankly, some decisions are so stupid you really deserve to learn your lesson in a painful, or terminal, fashion. Sorry, but not every life is worth saving. Some people are simply what engineers jokingly call "b.a.d"...broken as designed.
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It's really a tough topic though.
Not really. Stupid hurts. Sometimes it hurts a lot. Sometimes it kills you.
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If it's just some young and dumb innocent kid running because his adrenaline is pumping then it would be a real shame to see him run over a spike strip at speed and fly off the bike to his possible death.
Only to someone like you. To the rest of us it qualifies as entertainment. If he's running - he isn't innocent and frankly, his life isn't worth the trouble.
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On the other hand if it's a serious criminal (rapist/murderer/etc) them, use any force necessary to stop them.
I agree - in fact, rapists should be executed on sight.
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But obviously it's not always possible for the cops to know who is on the bike and how violent or non violent of a person they are.
No - hence the reason you assume if he's running, he's a piece of , and if he dies, bonus. Less cost to the taxpayers in the long run.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:00 AM   #124
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Sure, but is it safe? I've taken a few gun safety courses in my time, and the subject of shooting tires never came up. You have a link?
Pointing a gun at humans? Of course it isn't safe for the guy on the business end - that's kinda the point, isn't it?

As far as shooting at tires - you want a link supporting such a tactic? Not going to find many of those and i think they're all in this thread. Every trainer I've ever known/worked with has made it pretty damned clear that small, mobile targets like legs, hands, tires, etc. are very stupid things to try to shoot when you're wanting to stop someone.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:01 AM   #125
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That's one reason I don't have facebook, another is that I'm a grown man
This is why i mostly ride and stick with a certain few. Not a big meet and greeter! To much judgement
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:22 AM   #126
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Pointing a gun at humans? Of course it isn't safe for the guy on the business end - that's kinda the point, isn't it?

As far as shooting at tires - you want a link supporting such a tactic? Not going to find many of those and i think they're all in this thread. Every trainer I've ever known/worked with has made it pretty damned clear that small, mobile targets like legs, hands, tires, etc. are very stupid things to try to shoot when you're wanting to stop someone.
No, I want a safety course link that mentions shooting tires. FYI, the nine ring is smaller than any part of the sidewall of your average car tire.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:45 AM   #127
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:10 PM   #128
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bunch of babble bluster and bullshit.

BTW - if you've lost count of how many times you've drawn in the line of duty, you really need to either get some help for the memory loss or anger management. The vast bulk of cops in the US go through an entire career without ever drawing their sidearm. It is a little disconcerting that a local po-po who advocates disregarding the most basic rules of firearm safety also seems to pull his gun at the slightest provocation.
The text I've bolded is ridiculous. If you've gone through your law enforcement career without unholstering, you're a coward who has managed to avoid such situations.

I guess armed people who just commited felonies = slightest provocation in this super hero's eyes. I should just quit my job and open my spot to allow a real man like you to fill my boots. I bow out.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:24 PM   #129
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The text I've bolded is ridiculous. If you've gone through your law enforcement career without unholstering, you're a coward who has managed to avoid such situations.
The text you bolded is fact. Most cops never draw their sidearm. Maybe not most in YOUR department, but most in general.
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I guess armed people who just commited felonies = slightest provocation in this super hero's eyes.
I don't know the circumstances. I just know what you said - which is you've done it more times than you remember. That's a bit disconcerting that you are so willing to use deadly force.
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I should just quit my job and open my spot to allow a real man like you to fill my boots. I bow out.
Should you quit your job? That's up to you. If you feel you're doing a good job, then frankly, you don't need to justify it to me. Sounds to me like you're a bit insecure in your position and feel the need to bow up and act like you know better than a mere peon. What's that old saying about protesting too much?

I'm not the one letting his testosterone out for a walk. That would be you my friend. I'm suggesting that maybe you should be thinking a bit more before you start shooting - you apparently disagree. Just hope your aggressive attitude doesn't end up getting someone innocent harmed.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:32 PM   #130
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No, I want a safety course link that mentions shooting tires.
You wont find one. Its never recommended.
Short list of reasons why not to shoot at a tire:
1) Small moving target - bad idea in general when dealing with a stressful situation.
2) Hollowpoints may or may not penetrate (steel, kevlar and rounded rubber tend to deflect shots).
3) You're likely going to miss. Where does that bullet go?
4) Even if you DO penetrate and flatten the tire, it wont stop the car immediately - and may not stop it at all.

In short - there is no real reason to do so and many reasons not to. Its like shooting the guy in the arm or leg. Stupid to try, and by intentionally going for a non-lethal hit, you destroy any legitimate justification for the use of lethal force.

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FYI, the nine ring is smaller than any part of the sidewall of your average car tire.
I'm aware of that, however that IS a static target. You're talking about a moving target in a tense, adrenaline-fueled situation. Slight difference there. You know it as well as I do.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:36 PM   #131
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aren;t you like a computer geek/ star wannabe? lol
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #132
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aren;t you like a computer geek/ star wannabe? lol
LOL Computer geek? Yes. star? no thanks. Wouldn't ever want that to become work.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #133
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I don't know the circumstances. I just know what you said - which is you've done it more times than you remember. That's a bit disconcerting that you are so willing to use deadly force.
Of course you don't know the circumstances. You're not a cop. I'm curious where you're getting your vast wealth of knowledge on law enforcement from? Please tell me it's from television or a book or a criminal justice class you took during undergrad...

Quote:
Should you quit your job? That's up to you. If you feel you're doing a good job, then frankly, you don't need to justify it to me. Sounds to me like you're a bit insecure in your position and feel the need to bow up and act like you know better than a mere peon. What's that old saying about protesting too much?
I apologize I didn't have my sarcasm text on. Love my job. Love every aspect of it, even the people who don't know a thing about it who challenge it.

Quote:
I'm not the one letting his testosterone out for a walk. That would be you my friend. I'm suggesting that maybe you should be thinking a bit more before you start shooting - you apparently disagree. Just hope your aggressive attitude doesn't end up getting someone innocent harmed.
No chest puffing over here. I'm probably one of the smallest guys at my agency. If I only used testosterone and muscle and gun pointing to get the job done I wouldn't last.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #134
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You wont find one. Its never recommended.
Well, give me a link instead of your flapping gums
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #135
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Well, give me a link instead of your flapping gums
You want a link to something that doesn't exist?
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #136
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I'm aware of that, however that IS a static target. You're talking about a moving target in a tense, adrenaline-fueled situation. Slight difference there. You know it as well as I do.
It's not moving if I'm traveling next to it at the same speed
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #137
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You want a link to something that doesn't exist?
Oh, so YOU recommend not shooting tires. You acted like it was part of every gun safety course.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #138
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It's not moving if I'm traveling next to it at the same speed
Uh oh. Now you're really gonna confuse him.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:54 PM   #139
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It's not moving if I'm traveling next to it at the same speed
Unless I'm trying to hit the "G" in GOODYEAR
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #140
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It's not moving if I'm traveling next to it at the same speed
Yes it is.

Relative forward movement may be static, but the tire is still rotating, and then you've got suspension and steering movements as well as drift in the lane on both cars.

Besides, if you're traveling next to it, shooting through the driver window would be a MUCH more effective shot. Bigger target, not moving near as much, etc.

Bevo, I know what you're doing - you're just being your usual self and trying to find a logical hole to pick at. Problem is, there isnt one. Is there a situation where it MAY be the only solution? Sure. Anything is possible. However, what Jesse and you apparently are trying to defend regardless of reality is, the idea is stupid on its face and is an invitation to missing the target and hitting something you do not want to shoot. As a rule, it happens in Hollywood, not in real life. Nitpicking over the one time you've known it to happen or over the possibility that it can be done, does not change the fact that it shouldn't.
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