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Old 10-01-2012, 10:51 PM   #81
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http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=137388 <--- Not the Leo's fault...

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Ya know, there are roads with no speed limits. They are safe.
Where, in the continental US?
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:56 PM   #82
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Well excuse me for regarding road safety for all rather than succumbing to archaic ideology.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:53 AM   #83
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Yes law enforcement should be able to chase. Spike strips/pit maneuver I would disagree with to some extent. Call me crazy but I put a high value on human life. I realize they're criminals but still, everyone makes a decision at least once. It's really a tough topic though.

If it's just some young and dumb innocent kid running because his adrenaline is pumping then it would be a real shame to see him run over a spike strip at speed and fly off the bike to his possible death.

On the other hand if it's a serious criminal (rapist/murderer/etc) them, use any force necessary to stop them.

But obviously it's not always possible for the cops to know who is on the bike and how violent or non violent of a person they are.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:58 AM   #84
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http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=137388 <--- Not the Leo's fault...


Where, in the continental US?
Montana.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:47 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by jwreck View Post
Montana.
been there recently? Not being a smart , serious question...

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Montana

[edit] Reasonable and prudent

In the years before 1974's national 55 mph limit, and for three years after the 1995 repeal of the increased 65 mph limit, Montana had a non-numeric "reasonable and prudent" speed limit during the daytime on most rural roads. Montana Code Annotated (MCA) Section 61-8-303 said "A person ... shall drive the vehicle ... at a rate of speed no greater than is reasonable and proper under the conditions existing at the point of operation ... so as not to unduly or unreasonably endanger the life, limb, property, or other rights of a person entitled to the use of the street or highway."





Typical speed limit sign that one would see at the Montana state line from December 1995 to June 1999.
Montana law also specified a few numeric limits: a night speed limit, usually 55 or 65 mph (89105 km/h), depending on road type; 25 mph (40 km/h) in urban districts and 35 mph (56 km/h) in construction zones.

The phrase "reasonable and prudent" is found in the language of most state speed laws. This allows prosecution under non-ideal conditions such as rain or snow when the speed limit would be imprudently fast.

[edit] No speed limit

On March 10, 1996,[109] a Montana patrolman issued a speeding ticket to a driver traveling at 85 mph (136 km/h) on a stretch of State Highway 200. The 50 year-old driver (Rudy Stanko) was operating a 1996 Camaro with less than 10,000 miles (16,093 km) on the odometer. Although the officer gave no opinion as to what would have been a reasonable speed, the driver was convicted. The driver appealed to the Montana Supreme Court. The Court reversed the conviction in case No. 97-486 on December 23, 1998; it held that a law requiring drivers to drive at a non-numerical "reasonable and proper" speed "is so vague that it violates the Due Process Clause ... of the Montana Constitution".

Effective May 28, 1999, as a result of that decision, the Montana Legislature established a speed limit of 75 mph.[110]
Montana's US, State, and even Secondary roads have speed limits posted similar to Texas 70 mph/night:65; truck:60/night:55 (similar to the truck speed limit for secondary (Farm to Market) roads in Texas.)

[edit] 75 mph speed limit

Despite this reversal, Montana's then-governor, Marc Racicot, did not convene an emergency session of the legislature. Montana technically had no speed limit whatsoever until June 1999, after the Montana legislature met in regular session and enacted a new law. The law's practical effect was to require numeric speed limits on all roads and disallow any speed limit higher than 75 mph (121 km/h).

Montana law still contains a section that says "a person shall operate a vehicle in a careful and prudent manner and at a reduced rate of speed no greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions existing at the point of operation, taking into account the amount and character of traffic, visibility, weather, and roadway conditions." However, this is a standard clause that appears in other state traffic codes and has the practical effect of requiring a speed lower than the speed limit where a lower speed is necessary to maintain a reasonable and prudent road manner.

Montana also has limited sections of night speed limits.[111]
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:17 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdfowler6 View Post
For everyone whose in favor of pursuits; how would you feel if your family was killed in a fatal car accident caused by a police pursuit?
How would you feel if someone murdered your family, but the police couldn't catch him because they wouldn't chase?
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:26 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtelevisionset View Post
"On average...

Crashes as a result of police chases and police response calls kill more than one person a day, and one-third of the people killed are innocent bystanders.

Innocent third parties who just happened to be in the way constitute 42 percent of persons killed or injured in police pursuits. "

I dunno how that works.

http://pursuitsafety.org/mediakit/statistics.html
Quote:
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reported that 314
people were killed during pursuits
in 1998. Of this total, 2 were police officers and
198 were individuals being chased. The remaining 114 were either occupants of
unrelated vehicles or pedestrians.6 The total was higher in each of the 4 previous
years.
Justice served, besides that, there's a bunch of bullshit guessing up in this : http://pursuitsafety.org/images/FBI_Journal2002.pdf
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:30 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdfowler6 View Post
I'm okay with cops looking for speeders while on patrol but I disagree with them being fully stopped, hidden, looking for speeders. I've actually seen an accident caused by a cop radaring people in cinco ranch. Person saw the cop, freaked out, and went up a curb.
Good! Looks like they got naturally selected
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:31 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtelevisionset View Post
Ya know, there are roads with no speed limits. They are safe.
since somebody always talks about the autobahn, but know very little about it
here is some first hand knowledge

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowFlyer View Post
:plus:
German highways are mostly not speed regulation free, quite the opposite....in my own experience only about 10% of the highways are speed limit free, the rest has dynamic speed regulation that varies constantly depending on the traffic ahead of you and conditions.....before reaching any metro area screens will start slowing you down, often to 120 kmph and then down to 100kmph (60mph)....dreaded Stau signs will hit you every 30 miles......in unlimited areas people are mostly just constantly accelerating and braking madly and traffic mostly does not flow uninterruptedly.....end result is the same as if you actually travelled with speed limit of roughly 80 mph.....I spent substantial time on german highways in my then BMW 740 when I lived in Bavaria and later in Denmark and while unlimited speed parts are super nice, I must say that I drove for prolonged time really fast only at 2AM.....the rest of the time german highways are mosty clogged up to the point of frustration.....as silly as US speed limits look, they actually provide for more consistent traffic flow and reduce the accident rate due to huge speed differentials.....in US drivers are trained to completely different rules and have also much less discipline.....boring I know.....

insurance industry also hinders madly fast driving as there are serious implications on your liability in case of accidents during driving above recommended speed in blue squared signs (mostly between 110-140 or 60-80mph).....so driving like mad fast in Germany is a nice escape from US reality but in german real life much less so....
now you think they only let elite riders/drivers like you on there? they don't its open to the public, so all those wonderful 18 wheelers and dumptrucks you detest, they'll be on there along w/ bubba and cinco ranch barbie.

then there's car/bike legality, your license plate altered, park the bike till you get it fixed. tail light out on the car, park the car.

you think a weekend course makes your qualified to ride on the autobahn? nope, alot longer cost that cost alot of $

damm the dream!
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:32 AM   #90
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Whatever happend to personal responsibility?
It was outlawed with the 21st century
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:40 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtelevisionset View Post
This is a video I plan on using in court soon. Skip to 3:40.
Unless you were the dumbass that locked up the wheels, it ain't gonna help you
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:22 AM   #92
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I will preface the following statement by stating that Walter WAS my friend. Walter WAS a smart kid with the world at his fingertips. Walter WAS young and cocky and ignorant of the possible outcomes of running from the law because he had youthful ignorance on his side. I say WAS because he is no longer the same guy we all once knew...now he's mentally and physically handicapped for life because he made the stupid choice to run for the law. That choice will impact him for the rest of his life, and I place 100% of the blame on him and not the LEO's involved because they gave him multiple chances to pull over or turn himself in and face his charges like a man.

Do a search on here for the early posts of NosRavenR1 and his tone reminds me of a lot of you guys daily rhetoric. Read through his posts and stories and you'll get a sense of who he was and what he thought about riding, running, and law enforcement. Finally, read the NosRavenR1 down thread and look what he brought upon himself. Look at the pics of his mangled body and read what those of us that know him thought of his condition. Try to PM him, or his mommy that always defended his dumbass, and ask them today what they think about running from the law and police pursuits. I firmly believe karma smacked the dog out of Walter, and he had it coming. I also firmly believe law enforcement should be able to pursue at high speeds and I believe they should be able to employ whatever means are necessary to stop fleeing suspects. The suspect has the choice to pull over...if they run they are 100% responsible for the outcome regardless of who ends up involved.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:50 AM   #93
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:59 AM   #94
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I will preface the following statement by stating that Walter WAS my friend. Walter WAS a smart kid with the world at his fingertips. Walter WAS young and cocky and ignorant of the possible outcomes of running from the law because he had youthful ignorance on his side. I say WAS because he is no longer the same guy we all once knew...now he's mentally and physically handicapped for life because he made the stupid choice to run for the law. That choice will impact him for the rest of his life, and I place 100% of the blame on him and not the LEO's involved because they gave him multiple chances to pull over or turn himself in and face his charges like a man.

Do a search on here for the early posts of NosRavenR1 and his tone reminds me of a lot of you guys daily rhetoric. Read through his posts and stories and you'll get a sense of who he was and what he thought about riding, running, and law enforcement. Finally, read the NosRavenR1 down thread and look what he brought upon himself. Look at the pics of his mangled body and read what those of us that know him thought of his condition. Try to PM him, or his mommy that always defended his dumbass, and ask them today what they think about running from the law and police pursuits. I firmly believe karma smacked the dog out of Walter, and he had it coming. I also firmly believe law enforcement should be able to pursue at high speeds and I believe they should be able to employ whatever means are necessary to stop fleeing suspects. The suspect has the choice to pull over...if they run they are 100% responsible for the outcome regardless of who ends up involved.
I got chills over my whole body reading this....
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:29 AM   #95
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:37 AM   #96
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:10 AM   #97
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been there recently? Not being a smart , serious question...
Lol. Nope. Last time was late 90s. Thanks for the update.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:13 AM   #98
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Nobody "shoots out tires" except in Hollywood. In real life, that's nothing but a good way to have bullets go where you don't want them to.
Happened in my agency a few years back. DPS still does.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:17 AM   #99
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #100
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Happened in my agency a few years back. DPS still does.
Then your agency and DPS are violating the most basic rules of firearm safety and recklessly endangering the general public.

Honestly you should know better, but as we all know, cops are some of the worst offenders of firearms safety rules.
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