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Old 04-16-2013, 05:18 PM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewave18 View Post
Pretty sure everyone here knows this. Its the PITA associated with beating the charge and the bail associated with the charge.
Right. It's a subjective notion, fleeing, since we can't read minds. And so much of the law is the culpable mental state of the offender. Is he fleeing, or is he just a complete IDIOT running stop signs and lights and riding 120 MPH. Gee officer, I didn't see you. I was going WAY too fast to see you. Did the killer intentionally kill that person, or was it an accident? Did the thief MEAN to walk out of the store with that item, or just forget to pay for it?

Nothing we can do about that, except, oh, maybe ride like we have a few sane brain cells, and not worry about everyone else. And of course, trust that when the cop gets it wrong, the jury will hopefully get it right.

The point I'm making is that it's pretty disingenuous to blame a cop in the event that a person says they weren't fleeing, but were charged with it. You know, there are a lot of things that already went wrong to even get to that point.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:28 PM   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
Right. It's a subjective notion, fleeing, since we can't read minds. And so much of the law is the culpable mental state of the offender. Is he fleeing, or is he just a complete IDIOT running stop signs and lights and riding 120 MPH. Gee officer, I didn't see you. I was going WAY too fast to see you. Did the killer intentionally kill that person, or was it an accident? Did the thief MEAN to walk out of the store with that item, or just forget to pay for it?

Nothing we can do about that, except, oh, maybe ride like we have a few sane brain cells, and not worry about everyone else. And of course, trust that when the cop gets it wrong, the jury will hopefully get it right.

The point I'm making is that it's pretty disingenuous to blame a cop in the event that a person says they weren't fleeing, but were charged with it. You know, there are a lot of things that already went wrong to even get to that point.
It's also a bit disingenuous to assume that reasonable judgement will be used consistently. Such as "catching a runner at a stop light". Really bad speeding tickets are a pain in the , felony charges go in a different bracket entirely. Besides the fact that regardless of a conviction, arrest records (especially felony charges) are taken quite seriously with the little things in life, like getting a job etc.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:32 PM   #463
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It's also a bit disingenuous to assume that reasonable judgement will be used consistently. Such as "catching a runner at a stop light". Really bad speeding tickets are a pain in the , felony charges go in a different bracket entirely. Besides the fact that regardless of a conviction, arrest records (especially felony charges) are taken quite seriously in the little things like getting a job etc.
Cops are not automatons, dude, you're never ever going to get any perfect consistency. That's the point of having a jury.

This... again...

Nothing we can do about that, except, oh, maybe ride like we have a few sane brain cells, and not worry about everyone else.


If you want to lane split and ride 120 MPH on the street, you just MIGHT get mistaken for fleeing when you are damned near impossible to catch. So be a smart guy.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:46 PM   #464
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Cops are not automatons, dude, you're never ever going to get any perfect consistency. That's the point of having a jury.

This... again...

Nothing we can do about that, except, oh, maybe ride like we have a few sane brain cells, and not worry about everyone else.


If you want to lane split and ride 120 MPH on the street, you just MIGHT get mistaken for fleeing when you are damned near impossible to catch. So be a smart guy.
I personally never lane split. Never liked the idea of getting hit.

It is one thing to really have to make a judgement call on whether someone is fleeing and get it wrong, and another to just assume they are and ignore all evidence after the fact. From the part of your post I put in bold, I have to wonder if you think I am talking a specific situation. I am not. I am talking about being charged with one thing when you are doing something else because someone has the discretion to do so and the results are more satisfying or convenient. If I ever decided to run from law enforcement, which I wouldn't, you probably wouldn't find me waiting on a traffic light or stop sign (just an easy example).

I find it funny that my posts that simply scrutinize the actions of civil servants get so much scrutiny. Everyone gets graded, judged and measured for nearly every aspect of what they do or are a part of. But for some reason when law enforcement comes up, its either bashing or tedious at best.

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Old 04-16-2013, 05:51 PM   #465
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I wasn't talking about you specifically by saying "you". It was just a general statement.

Again, it's just very disingenuous to have someone be a complete maniac but then blame the cop if the charge doesn't fit what was running through his mind while he was being a complete maniac. I mean, really, we're reaching for any reason to blame the cop when things like that happen? WHEN that happens, and it's possible, trust the jury. As for the inconvenience of the person having to make bail, WHO CARES. If you (again, not you specifically) are being a complete dipshit, that's just part of the risk you are taking.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #466
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Like the cop above that was going 15 over and the cop thought he was running. Happens a lot. By the time they catch up from a dead stop you are accused of running.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:57 PM   #467
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I've never had a problem catching someone at 15 over. But I do believe everything I read on the internet.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:01 PM   #468
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I'm sure you would take the word of the cop that posted it. Right?
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:01 PM   #469
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Quote:
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One of my OWN guys tried to initiate a pursuit on ME one night! I had no idea he was behind me until he was right on my .

Rookie cop turned on his woo-woo's when he was WAY behind me. Since I didn't stop (because I couldn't see and certainly couldn't hear said woo-woo's) the cop thought I was running. I was doing about 15 over the speed limit. If I had been running, I'd have been triple the limit. The cop "caught" me at a red light.

I don't know the circumstances around today's incident, but it is quite possible to be "running" and not even know it.
Cop statement
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
I wasn't talking about you specifically by saying "you". It was just a general statement.

Again, it's just very disingenuous to have someone be a complete maniac but then blame the cop if the charge doesn't fit what was running through his mind while he was being a complete maniac. I mean, really, we're reaching for any reason to blame the cop when things like that happen? WHEN that happens, and it's possible, trust the jury. As for the inconvenience of the person having to make bail, WHO CARES. If you (again, not you specifically) are being a complete dipshit, that's just part of the risk you are taking.
Thanks for clarifying, and in the extremes you are talking about, I get what you are saying. Honestly if I was riding out cutting through traffic, I'd feel a little stupid getting upset about being charged if LEO actually thought I was full of . What I find aggravating is the same assumptions being made when the situation doesn't measure up to the contingencies you provided in your example.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:05 PM   #471
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That's why I rolled with no mirrors, lights, or plates.....

As far as I "know", I never "ran".

And was never "caught"

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Old 04-16-2013, 06:08 PM   #472
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That's why I rolled with no mirrors, lights, or plates.....

As far as I "know", I never "ran".

And was never "caught"

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Old 04-16-2013, 10:33 PM   #473
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I'm sure you would take the word of the cop that posted it. Right?
With a grain of salt, brutha.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:30 AM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
Cops are not automatons, dude, you're never ever going to get any perfect consistency. That's the point of having a jury.

This... again...

Nothing we can do about that, except, oh, maybe ride like we have a few sane brain cells, and not worry about everyone else.


If you want to lane split and ride 120 MPH on the street, you just MIGHT get mistaken for fleeing when you are damned near impossible to catch. So be a smart guy.
I was doing 55 in a 40 at 3am when there was no traffic at all.

Speeding, yes... riding like a , no.

My point is that SOME cops have hard-ons (or gross misconceptions at the least) about motorcycles... t, about citizens in general. I didn't trust them when I was one of them, and I certainly don't trust them now.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:17 AM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre-K View Post
I was doing 55 in a 40 at 3am when there was no traffic at all.

Speeding, yes... riding like a , no.

My point is that SOME cops have hard-ons (or gross misconceptions at the least) about motorcycles... t, about citizens in general. I didn't trust them when I was one of them, and I certainly don't trust them now.
You forgot, "FTP"
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:02 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre-K View Post
My point is that SOME cops have hard-ons (or gross misconceptions at the least) about motorcycles... t, about citizens in general. I didn't trust them when I was one of them, and I certainly don't trust them now.
Some thing that has and continues to bother me, about LEO's, and even for "Officers of the Court" for that matter, is where the heck do they get off referring to the rest of us as "civilians and/or citizens"?!?! It's always done in a condescending way. What exactly do they fancy themselves to be. With due appreciation for the difficult dangerous job they do, its just that, a job. A badge and a little legal training doesn't mean they some how are elevated in status, certainly not so that they don't even need to follow the laws they CLAIM to (selectively) enforce.

Members of the armed forces are not civilians, they fall under the UCMJ, for them the Constitution is not applicable. Any LEO can quit their job without penalty when ever he wishes without consequence beyond a missed paycheck. A soldier does not have that option. So news flash there to every barney fife, judge judy and mirror classes, round brown wearing, ticket book toting, power tripping, ego maniacal loser abusing the people's trust, you are a civilian just like the people you swear to protect and serve. If you want to be more, then take the Oath, give up your rights under the Constitution, grab a rifle and stand to with men and women who put their lives on the line everyday to make sure you have laws and a place to enforce them!

Whew, who left that soap box there all out the open for just anyone to get on. Got..... to be more careful!
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:56 PM   #477
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Quote:
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Some thing that has and continues to bother me, about LEO's, and even for "Officers of the Court" for that matter, is where the heck do they get off referring to the rest of us as "civilians and/or citizens"?!?! It's always done in a condescending way. What exactly do they fancy themselves to be. With due appreciation for the difficult dangerous job they do, its just that, a job. A badge and a little legal training doesn't mean they some how are elevated in status, certainly not so that they don't even need to follow the laws they CLAIM to (selectively) enforce.

Members of the armed forces are not civilians, they fall under the UCMJ, for them the Constitution is not applicable. Any LEO can quit their job without penalty when ever he wishes without consequence beyond a missed paycheck. A soldier does not have that option. So news flash there to every barney fife, judge judy and mirror classes, round brown wearing, ticket book toting, power tripping, ego maniacal loser abusing the people's trust, you are a civilian just like the people you swear to protect and serve. If you want to be more, then take the Oath, give up your rights under the Constitution, grab a rifle and stand to with men and women who put their lives on the line everyday to make sure you have laws and a place to enforce them!

Whew, who left that soap box there all out the open for just anyone to get on. Got..... to be more careful!

1/ I agree
2/ LEA's are paramilitary and even the training is patterned so....
3/ In conversations, its just easier to say/type LEO/"civilian".....

I dont take offense when "everyone" says FTP....you shouldn't get offended if someone calls u a citizen/civilian, because that's what WE are.......









FTP
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:37 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMFI9
1/ I agree
2/ LEA's are paramilitary and even the training is patterned so....
3/ In conversations, its just easier to say/type LEO/"civilian".....

I dont take offense when "everyone" says FTP....you shouldn't get offended if someone calls u a citizen/civilian, because that's what WE are.......

FTP
1.1 cool
2.1 the post office is also paramilitary. Point being cops may have similar training methods but are not in the same legal or political or social status as the actual military. Unfortunately a select few take on a complex.
3.1 Easier perhaps, but misleadingly incorrect none the less.

No offense taken, not the type to say F anything, and WE know but for some reason a few of THEM seem to forget they are to.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:57 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre-K View Post
I was doing 55 in a 40 at 3am when there was no traffic at all.

Speeding, yes... riding like a , no.

My point is that SOME cops have hard-ons (or gross misconceptions at the least) about motorcycles... t, about citizens in general. I didn't trust them when I was one of them, and I certainly don't trust them now.
You were a cop, not a cop now, you didn't trust them then, and you don't trust them now. Am I reading this right?

But you were doing 15 over ONLY, and even though you didn't trust a cop when you were one, we should trust your story now?

Even though you didn't get arrested during your story, cop sucked for suggesting that he thought you were running.

Okay, cool story bro.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:17 AM   #480
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Quote:
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1.1 cool
2.1 the post office is also paramilitary. Point being cops may have similar training methods but are not in the same legal or political or social status as the actual military. Unfortunately a select few take on a complex.
3.1 Easier perhaps, but misleadingly incorrect none the less.

No offense taken, not the type to say F anything, and WE know but for some reason a few of THEM seem to forget they are to.

Funny thing....Just watching the news and they were broadcasting videos/photos taken by people at the scene. They were referred to as "photographs taken by citizens and not journalists".......
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