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Old 09-21-2012, 10:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volfy View Post
To me, it is more about the fact that H-D is doing any tech development work at all. Other than the VRod engine, which they had to get Porsche to help out, there hasn't been a whole lot of engine R&D since the switch from Evolution to twincam more than a quarter of a Century ago.

With H-D, it's all about the packaging - fat forks here, smaller tires there, bags, no bags, speakers, no speakers, frame-mounted fairing, fork-mounted fairing. Shopping at H-D feels like looking at the menu at Taco Bell - you know everything on it is made with tortilla, meat, lettuce, tomato and cheese - whether they call it a burrito or a gordita.

I like Taco Bell, but for 30 large, I'd like to have fillet mignon rather than grade-E meat.
To be fair, that's not QUITE true.

First off, the Evo went bye-bye in 2001. The Twin Cam (aka Twinkie or Fat Head) came around then. The TC, while lower tech than a lot of sport bike motors, is actually a pretty well designed engine, for what it is.

HD is not, and never really has been about power. No, the TC isnt all that powerful, but what it is, is a very durable engine that manages to look classic on the outside but meet all current emissions controls on the inside.They're about as reliable as a rock (usually good for about 150K miles before needing the top end rebuilt - which can be done by the average owner in his garage in an afternoon if he has half a clue mechanically) - bottom end, with care, is good for 200-250K. Yes - really.

While I'll be the first to rag on them for some things - give them credit where it is due. The produce the most popular touring bikes which have adequate power, are about the most comfortable bikes made, and have a fit and finish which is second to none.

The Revolution engine (The VRSC engine) is phenomenal on a BAD day.

Do they produce a tech-heavy bike? No. Do they produce anything making eyeball-flattening power? No. Do their customers care? Nope. What they DO make is a reliable, neutral handling machine that can be ridden anywhere with paved roads and that just chugs along at any legal speed all day long with minimal maintenance.

HD's days of parts dropping and spot marking are long since over.

Do I wish they had more power? Sure. It would be nice at times. But for the most part, I couldn't care less. I know I can get on my bike anytime, ride a thousand miles in a day and get off without any muscle aches and do it all over again the next day.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:22 AM   #22
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I too can't believe I'm puchasing one this weekend....mid life crisis? naw. I'm only 32. Can't do the sport bike thing right now bc I'd suck myself back into trackdays, or if I stuck to the street on a SS I'd end up dead or in jail for my antics....I'm hoping a Harley (an 883 at that) will be the balance I'm looking for.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:33 AM   #23
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I too can't believe I'm puchasing one this weekend....mid life crisis? naw. I'm only 32. Can't do the sport bike thing right now bc I'd suck myself back into trackdays, or if I stuck to the street on a SS I'd end up dead or in jail for my antics....I'm hoping a Harley (an 883 at that) will be the balance I'm looking for.
Word of advice - stretch a bit and get the 1200. Its worth it.

Nothing wrong with the 883, but the 1200 is the quickest thing HD makes short of the V-Rod and is one of the best handling standard bikes ever made.

The Sporty is NOT an entry level bike. It is a serious machine designed for racing. It may be HD's least expensive, but it is probably their best developed chassis short of the big baggers.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Word of advice - stretch a bit and get the 1200. Its worth it.

Nothing wrong with the 883, but the 1200 is the quickest thing HD makes short of the V-Rod and is one of the best handling standard bikes ever made.

The Sporty is NOT an entry level bike. It is a serious machine designed for racing. It may be HD's least expensive, but it is probably their best developed chassis short of the big baggers.
I got the 883 and Im happy.

However, I bought it with the intention of it being CHEAPER than the 1200 by a few grand, and insurance is cheaper than a 1200, AND you can (and I will) swap out the jugs and upgrade it to a 1250 for less than a grand.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:37 AM   #25
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I got the 883 and Im happy.

However, I bought it with the intention of it being CHEAPER than the 1200 by a few grand, and insurance is cheaper than a 1200, AND you can (and I will) swap out the jugs and upgrade it to a 1250 for less than a grand.
Yeah - there is that. However, when you go to sell the 883 with a 1200 upgrade, its still an 883. If you sell something that started life as a 1200, its a 1200 when you sell it.

Either one is an excellent machine. I just like to caution people that it is not a starter bike. The Sporty, while able to be ridden by a newbie, is best ridden by someone who has a clue. Its pretty top heavy and can get a little twitchy.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Word of advice - stretch a bit and get the 1200. Its worth it.

Nothing wrong with the 883, but the 1200 is the quickest thing HD makes short of the V-Rod and is one of the best handling standard bikes ever made.

The Sporty is NOT an entry level bike. It is a serious machine designed for racing. It may be HD's least expensive, but it is probably their best developed chassis short of the big baggers.
The 2005 1200 is a pretty primitive bike and the rear suspension is , but it does get 48mpg
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Yeah - there is that. However, when you go to sell the 883 with a 1200 upgrade, its still an 883. If you sell something that started life as a 1200, its a 1200 when you sell it.

Either one is an excellent machine. I just like to caution people that it is not a starter bike. The Sporty, while able to be ridden by a newbie, is best ridden by someone who has a clue. Its pretty top heavy and can get a little twitchy.
To someone who knows something about Sportsters, an 883 upgraded to a 1250 is worth more than an OEM 1200, especially if there is a build sheet and the 1250 kit is a known name (Nallin, Axtell and others). While most 883/1200 bikes are simple top end swaps, a lot of them were upgraded with hotter cams, bigger valves and other performance upgrades that make them very desirable. And they still cost less and are likely better built than a factory 1200.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:58 AM   #28
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I rode the 883...had plenty of power for me, and like Chris I will likely add the 1200/1250 upgrade if I feel the need for more power.

Although I think I'd do suspension upgrades before the jugs.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
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I rode the 883...had plenty of power for me, and like Chris I will likely add the 1200/1250 upgrade if I feel the need for more power.

Although I think I'd do suspension upgrades before the jugs.
Yeah, I think Ill get some progressive rears pretty soon.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:12 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Yeah, I think Ill get some progressive rears pretty soon.
Let me know how you like them
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:19 AM   #31
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Let me know how you like them
Cant I just go ahead and tell you they are better than the stocks?
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:20 AM   #32
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Cant I just go ahead and tell you they are better than the stocks?
A system of bungee cords would be better. I just want to know if they're worth the price
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:25 AM   #33
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A system of bungee cords would be better. I just want to know if they're worth the price
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:32 AM   #34
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That H-D has been phenomenally successful since the '80s guvmint bailout is unquestionable. They are great at what they do, which is brand-building. I'm not so sure about the quality issue though. My neighbor bought a Road King just this last year. Some 20k miles later, he swears he will never buy another one. His is a police package and while he may be harder on the equipment than most civilians, he's not a motocop and only rides it for escort jobs.

It pains me to see Victory copying H-D's success formula and branding themselves into another Taco shop. No diversity in the product line, just one cruiser after another, with the same ol' engine, and a catalog-full of chrome & bling.

Problem with selling "mystique" and "tradition" is the danger of boxing themselves into a self-revolving product line. The more they are successful, the less they dare to mess with the formula. They are not alone. Moto Guzzi suffers the same conundrum. I do love me a nice air-cool V-twin, but how many times can you recycle nostalgia?
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:45 AM   #35
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I've been debating a sportster recently also. I wouldn't mind raising the rear, drag bars, exhaust for higher lean angle, a bit taller seat.... maybe even move the controls back a bit.... just not sure the heavy will be as nimble as I'd like. Would LIKE a more balanced pair of tires (but not 48 big). I'm not looking for SS handling (I don't even ride my 650r to it's potential)... but the sportster is another 150lbs over the 650r. Just don't think it's gonna be as effortless to cruise the corners as I'd like.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #36
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I've been debating a sportster recently also. I wouldn't mind raising the rear, drag bars, exhaust for higher lean angle, a bit taller seat.... maybe even move the controls back a bit.... just not sure the heavy will be as nimble as I'd like. Would LIKE a more balanced pair of tires (but not 48 big). I'm not looking for SS handling (I don't even ride my 650r to it's potential)... but the sportster is another 150lbs over the 650r. Just don't think it's gonna be as effortless to cruise the corners as I'd like.
Honestly, I was quite supprised on how my Iron feels in the corners. Not too shabby.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #37
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I've been debating a sportster recently also. I wouldn't mind raising the rear, drag bars, exhaust for higher lean angle, a bit taller seat.... maybe even move the controls back a bit.... just not sure the heavy will be as nimble as I'd like. Would LIKE a more balanced pair of tires (but not 48 big). I'm not looking for SS handling (I don't even ride my 650r to it's potential)... but the sportster is another 150lbs over the 650r. Just don't think it's gonna be as effortless to cruise the corners as I'd like.
Somebitch can change lanes in a split second
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #38
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I've been debating a sportster recently also. I wouldn't mind raising the rear, drag bars, exhaust for higher lean angle, a bit taller seat.... maybe even move the controls back a bit.... just not sure the heavy will be as nimble as I'd like. Would LIKE a more balanced pair of tires (but not 48 big). I'm not looking for SS handling (I don't even ride my 650r to it's potential)... but the sportster is another 150lbs over the 650r. Just don't think it's gonna be as effortless to cruise the corners as I'd like.
Sounds like you should look into the XR1200R. It's pretty much what you described above, but factory built.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:50 PM   #39
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Sounds like you should look into the XR1200R. It's pretty much what you described above, but factory built.
And sadly, is no longer available (new, at least)
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:24 PM   #40
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Yeah... it'd be a toss up between an XR and modding a sportster. Probably money being the deciding factor. I could buy an Iron 883 for 5k or 6k and mod as i ride.

I've never been afraid to mod a little, and MUCH prefer something that stands out. There's a reason I have a V8 S10 and not just another Fbody.


bars are too low... but otherwise... PERFECT!
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/sports...er-pics-9.html

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