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Old 07-11-2012, 09:07 AM   #121
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Going back to the essence of this thread. And this is just my opinion. In the future, the noobs rides should be devided into 2 groups. Instead of noobs and intermediate noobs, how about noobs with a track day experience and the ones without? Just because someone was at the track once, doesnt make him/her an expert.
I have to admit that those with or without track day experience could be given wrong impression and misguided when they observe riders in noob ride hanging off the seat and setting body position that may have not required in slow turns. However, i can guarantee that 100 % of noobs who have gone to the track at least once and were trained in BP, will practice it, practice it, and practice it, on slow turns, straights, not moving, etc. Therefore, now we know, that this subject which is brought out and created a big polemic war turned out to be positive, because now we know what to emphasize when a noob ride is set up by anyone. Going forward, let's set the standard, and make this part of intro to the ride, separate non TD noob, and put them in the front, explain them to focus on pace, signals, distance control, braking, and so on. Put the TD noobs in the second group so the first group doesn't have to see them practicing bp or any other issues that might distract the front group.
To add to the note. Gentlemen, thank you for your enthusiasm and efforts, and i know it is meant for creating a better solution. Each of us have an opinion, and it is more productive to bring them out, rather than keeping them in. In the process, some personal feelings can cause aggreviation or more dispute. But let's put all that aside, and congratulate to each other for the interest on creating solution for safe rides. Blanco's intention was clear. Make it safe, and dont pass the wrong information to the new riders. Senator's was the same as well, but comes from a different point of view from previous many ride experiences. I doubt there was an intention to disrespect an elder, and if so shame on you Bill! But, knowing not much but having met him and observing many times, Senator is one of most respectful and friendly guys out there. Let's all shake hands, and go to the next level. Now we know the issues, let's one day sit down over a bbq or a couple of beers and wings, and bring all these to the table and create a standard for organized group ride which reflects equally shared and decided points.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:26 AM   #122
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As a major contributor to the length of this thread, I do want to point out something that may have been missed earlier:

Senator and I are good. We resolved our stuff offline via pm and that is that.

Senator has also done a lot of good work on this board setting up parameters, posting thoughts and ideas, and jumping in and offering perspective. I appreciate his passion because that is what drives change and improvement.
Debate is good as well as different perspectives on subjects and Senator is not afraid to weigh in and if it were not for people like him who weigh in frequently, an online community is boring and stagnant and not "value add".

I also have passion which led to a rather lenghty exchange but it made for some interesting posts. Its probably the most interesting read most have seen in a month on this board!

After reflecting and reading wayyy old and past posts, the word I chose to describe a ride was innocent but had an entirely different meaning than I intended and the rest is history.

Lesson learned but this whole deal did bring to light a few cracks in the plaster which have been repaired:
Ride parameters which have been refreshed and re-posted, CBR-Tran started this thread to discuss gudelines for Noobs, and definitions for rides have been discussed again. ....probably not the easiest path to get here but I bet this thread has kept people watching and reading!

Senator gets my vote!
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:29 AM   #123
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For most noobs BP is NOT the problem. Panic braking just before or during a turn IS the problem.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:36 AM   #124
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For most noobs BP is NOT the problem. Panic braking just before or during a turn IS the problem.
And the problem for veterans; moving bikes in parking spots
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:44 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRider View Post
And the problem for veterans; moving bikes in parking spots
Or letting someone "borrow" their bikes and never bring them back
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:48 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
For most noobs BP is NOT the problem. Panic braking just before or during a turn IS the problem.
I agree with Bevo.

Is there a resource posted here that describes setting up for a turn? If not that would be a good item to explain because I have heard some descriptions from riders that while partially true are only part of a bigger equation.

On the subject of "Noob"s:

1)When posting for and about "Noobs", I recommend not using abbreviations (BP)
because they may get overlooked. I am not directing this at Bevo because I do it as well and sometimes catch myself having to translate when reading and new riders may not know what to translate.

2) Has "noob" ever been defined? I agree with Bluepine about tiering capabilities but it feels like a different name needs to be applied to a different tier? Again, there may be something already but its worth bringing up.

3) have we considered consolidating resource materials and links into one location on the site so that when describing something an interested party could read and learn?
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:49 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepine View Post
To add to the note. Gentlemen, thank you for your enthusiasm and efforts, and i know it is meant for creating a better solution. Each of us have an opinion, and it is more productive to bring them out, rather than keeping them in. In the process, some personal feelings can cause aggreviation or more dispute. But let's put all that aside, and congratulate to each other for the interest on creating solution for safe rides. Blanco's intention was clear. Make it safe, and dont pass the wrong information to the new riders. Senator's was the same as well, but comes from a different point of view from previous many ride experiences. I doubt there was an intention to disrespect an elder, and if so shame on you Bill! But, knowing not much but having met him and observing many times, Senator is one of most respectful and friendly guys out there. Let's all shake hands, and go to the next level. Now we know the issues, let's one day sit down over a bbq or a couple of beers and wings, and bring all these to the table and create a standard for organized group ride which reflects equally shared and decided points.
If it was seen as disrespectful I apologize. My comments were intended to grab attention, and let people question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
As a major contributor to the length of this thread, I do want to point out something that may have been missed earlier:

Senator and I are good. We resolved our stuff offline via pm and that is that.

Senator has also done a lot of good work on this board setting up parameters, posting thoughts and ideas, and jumping in and offering perspective. I appreciate his passion because that is what drives change and improvement.
Debate is good as well as different perspectives on subjects and Senator is not afraid to weigh in and if it were not for people like him who weigh in frequently, an online community is boring and stagnant and not "value add".

I also have passion which led to a rather lenghty exchange but it made for some interesting posts. Its probably the most interesting read most have seen in a month on this board!

After reflecting and reading wayyy old and past posts, the word I chose to describe a ride was innocent but had an entirely different meaning than I intended and the rest is history.

Lesson learned but this whole deal did bring to light a few cracks in the plaster which have been repaired:
Ride parameters which have been refreshed and re-posted, CBR-Tran started this thread to discuss gudelines for Noobs, and definitions for rides have been discussed again. ....probably not the easiest path to get here but I bet this thread has kept people watching and reading!

Senator gets my vote!
I 100% agree. I learned some things as well.
The grown men around here are quite capable of working out things.



PS- My, hopefully, obvious sarcasm from today, is not directed at this thread or Blanco BTW. It's directed at the resident expert.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:54 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
I agree with Bevo.

Is there a resource posted here that describes setting up for a turn? If not that would be a good item to explain because I have heard some descriptions from riders that while partially true are only part of a bigger equation.

On the subject of "Noob"s:

1)When posting for and about "Noobs", I recommend not using abbreviations (BP)
because they may get overlooked. I am not directing this at Bevo because I do it as well and sometimes catch myself having to translate when reading and new riders may not know what to translate.

2) Has "noob" ever been defined? I agree with Bluepine about tiering capabilities but it feels like a different name needs to be applied to a different tier? Again, there may be something already but its worth bringing up.

3) have we considered consolidating resource materials and links into one location on the site so that when describing something an interested party could read and learn?
That is a great question right there. Hard to define because some advance quicker than others, some never been on a track before. Some have been to the track and ran off every corner.

I will try and write something about how I was taught to setup for a turn on the street, then you guys can add/subtract, reword maybe?
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:56 AM   #129
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Cool, we can get back on track
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
I agree with Bevo.

Is there a resource posted here that describes setting up for a turn? If not that would be a good item to explain because I have heard some descriptions from riders that while partially true are only part of a bigger equation.

On the subject of "Noob"s:

1)When posting for and about "Noobs", I recommend not using abbreviations (BP)
because they may get overlooked. I am not directing this at Bevo because I do it as well and sometimes catch myself having to translate when reading and new riders may not know what to translate.

2) Has "noob" ever been defined? I agree with Bluepine about tiering capabilities but it feels like a different name needs to be applied to a different tier? Again, there may be something already but its worth bringing up.

3) have we considered consolidating resource materials and links into one location on the site so that when describing something an interested party could read and learn?
Here's the deal:

1. My MH definition of noob is "new to turns"
2. You can teach and instruct and demonstrate and warn until you're blue in the face, but when some riders have an "oh , I think I'm going too fast for this turn" moment, all that goes out the window. There's no better teacher than experience.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:00 AM   #131
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Quote:
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That is a great question right there. Hard to define because some advance quicker than others, some never been on a track before. Some have been to the track and ran off every corner.

I will try and write something about how I was taught to setup for a turn on the street, then you guys can add/subtract, reword maybe?
I'm going to pick and it and all over that thread
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:17 AM   #132
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I do agree with #2 below about experience being the best teacher; however, providing some finer points about setting up and turning (either written by members and or already written resource material) could benefit some who may try to actually implement some technique before getting to "oh ".

No replacement for experience for sure but there should be a supplement to help graduate from "Noob".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevo View Post
Here's the deal:

1. My MH definition of noob is "new to turns"
2. You can teach and instruct and demonstrate and warn until you're blue in the face, but when some riders have an "oh , I think I'm going too fast for this turn" moment, all that goes out the window. There's no better teacher than experience.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:21 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
I do agree with #2 below about experience being the best teacher; however, providing some finer points about setting up and turning (either written by members and or already written resource material) could benefit some who may try to actually implement some technique before getting to "oh ".

No replacement for experience for sure but there should be a supplement to help graduate from "Noob".
If instructing helps one noob, it's worth it, but as long as there are motorcycles that have to be controlled by the rider, there will be crashes even by those that have been taught the best theory
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #134
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For a pure "Noob Ride", I agree with Bevo's definition.

For a 2 group ride, or one big "fun run" (which I'm not a huge fan of this one) it's ALOT harder to pin down where someone goes like you said Blanco.

I like it when the 2 groups are clearly defined and named too! So someone with a little curve experience doesn't try to run with the big dogs, such as "The Fast group" and the "Chill/Cruise group".

Sometimes egos get in the way of being in a "noob group" after awhile.

I will say that if a person hasn't done a particular route, they should be in the "Chill/Cruise group" until they learn the turns. Some of those turns on 149 or 3090 close up out of nowhere.


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I'm going to all over.
That's what happens when you eat those delicious tacos from The Lot.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #135
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Thats good that you both have quelled your differences. Good job gentlemen. Senator youre the expert. You definitely got a show me how you stop going 105 mph on a 35 mph turn on 3090 some time!
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #136
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Quote:
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For most noobs BP is NOT the problem. Panic braking just before or during a turn IS the problem.
+1.

Thats what ive been tryin to say. I mean its best not to cover in my opinion, and force a noob to countersteer or lean more.

My opine.

But hey we should have a ride where we learn how to brake in a turn?
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:26 AM   #137
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Thats good that you both have quelled your differences. Good job gentlemen. Senator youre the expert. You definitely got a show me how you stop going 105 mph on a 35 mph turn on 3090 some time!
I learned from you, rear braking the entire way of course!

Troll somewhere else now, until you can actually think of something decent to contribute...
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:31 AM   #138
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I learned from you, rear braking the entire way of course!

Troll somewhere else now, until you can actually think of something decent to contribute...
Rear brakes in a turn.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:34 AM   #139
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Braking in a turn is an acquired skill that requires practice and understanding of the dynamics of the bike.

You had better know where the traction and lean angle limits of your bike are before you start working on it.

Definately has no place in a noob ride discussion and pretty stupid to keep bringing it up.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #140
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Maybe we can update this thread with new definitions http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...ght=definition
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