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Old 07-10-2012, 08:30 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
I absolutely took that way out of context and put a bright sign on it, in order to show how ridiculous of a statement that is. Some noob is going to read that and think it's okay that when he "steers" into a turn and his body is still perpendicular to the ground like a dirtbike.

You keep thinking of track and dragging knee when referring to body position, but I'd hope after your 28 years of riding that anything you do with your body on a motorcycle constitutes body position.
No, you are inserting things nto the statement that are simply not there.
I think that you should again re-read the statement.
The only thing that perhaps could be inserted into the statement as a qualifier for anyone not reading the prior pieces of the dialouge is that the part of BP referenced there is off the seat on a noob ride at posted speed limits.
Thank you for reminiding me that your body has a position somewhere on the bike at any point and time. I never knew that.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
No, you are inserting things nto the statement that are simply not there.
I think that you should again re-read the statement.
The only thing that perhaps could be inserted into the statement as a qualifier for anyone not reading the prior pieces of the dialouge is that the part of BP referenced there is off the seat on a noob ride at posted speed limits.
Thank you for reminiding me that your body has a position somewhere on the bike at any point and time. I never knew that.
BP does not equal hanging off ( off the seat)
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:36 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
No, you are inserting things nto the statement that are simply not there.
I think that you should again re-read the statement.
The only thing that perhaps could be inserted into the statement as a qualifier for anyone not reading the prior pieces of the dialouge is that the part of BP referenced there is off the seat on a noob ride at posted speed limits.
Thank you for reminiding me that your body has a position somewhere on the bike at any point and time. I never knew that.
And you blanketed that statement over "body position" to prove your point about steering, like we are teaching these noobs to drag knee right out of MSF class...

I called you out on that, stop trying to complicate my message.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:42 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRider View Post
Man, you guys are making noob rides sound soooo much fun

It's simple, the OP sets the tone and stick to that, no flip flopping on the thread when someone tries to ask about going faster. Let them know op states the rules ans that is that, they can always find another ride or fall in line.

We had a noob ride with Texlurch that was about 20 of us, we stuck to the rules and helpers and noobs had a lot of fun

Same thing on another ride I put together, we were about 20 and we had a great time.
Yeah I hope we don't scare the noobs, but I do hope they understand that this is meant to provide a safe, educational AND FUN guideline (people don't have to follow it). The noobs will gain the most from the end, and hopefully in time the motorcycle community as a whole will be much safer.

Thanks for your contribution Ivan, I really do think the most important thing is sticking to the rules stated in the thread and enforcing it. Which brings me to my next point.

The minimum req gear is always posted in the thread, however, I don't think anyone has ever checked in the rider's meeting. Couple of times I have seen people missing the required gear. I also think that knee guards should be required... A rider coulda walked away last week and avoided hospital bills had he had them. Not blaming anyone, the rider is always ultimately responsible for themself. Just my input.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:52 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
And you blanketed that statement over "body position" to prove your point about steering, like we are teaching these noobs to drag knee right out of MSF class...

I called you out on that, stop trying to complicate my message.
So we are in agreement here.
Getting back to arguably the root cuase of this thread is a thread about Counter Steering started by me after the Jly 4th ride. Please read it in its entirety because the REASON that I took the time to even write one letter is that there was NO TEACHING going on.
There were new riders hanging off of the seat riding againt a yellow line. As stated above in this thread, there is no need to hang off at posted speed limit turns.
Not only were new riders doing this but experienced riders were doing the same the whole time. Who are the new riders going to imitate? I am guessing the more experienced riders? Again I stand by everything that I said or I would not have taken an obviously unpopular position to point out an issue. I guess the position had positive outcomes because "hows and whys" are being discussed as a result.

I never said one time that anyone was teaching noobs to drag a knee.

You called me out about nothing.

Last edited by Blanco; 07-10-2012 at 08:52 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:03 AM   #66
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
So we are in agreement here.
Getting back to arguably the root cuase of this thread is a thread about Counter Steering started by me after the Jly 4th ride. Please read it in its entirety because the REASON that I took the time to even write one letter is that there was NO TEACHING going on.
There were new riders hanging off of the seat riding againt a yellow line. As stated above in this thread, there is no need to hang off at posted speed limit turns.
Not only were new riders doing this but experienced riders were doing the same the whole time. Who are the new riders going to imitate? I am guessing the more experienced riders? Again I stand by everything that I said or I would not have taken an obviously unpopular position to point out an issue. I guess the position had positive outcomes because "hows and whys" are being discussed as a result.

I never said one time that anyone was teaching noobs to drag a knee.

You called me out about nothing.
For the love of , don't let noobs watch any of the videos posted here, corner work at a track day, or watch any televised motogp, they might try to imitate what they see
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:13 AM   #68
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:22 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
So we are in agreement here.
Getting back to arguably the root cuase of this thread is a thread about Counter Steering started by me after the Jly 4th ride. Please read it in its entirety because the REASON that I took the time to even write one letter is that there was NO TEACHING going on.
There were new riders hanging off of the seat riding againt a yellow line. As stated above in this thread, there is no need to hang off at posted speed limit turns.
Not only were new riders doing this but experienced riders were doing the same the whole time. Who are the new riders going to imitate? I am guessing the more experienced riders? Again I stand by everything that I said or I would not have taken an obviously unpopular position to point out an issue. I guess the position had positive outcomes because "hows and whys" are being discussed as a result.

I never said one time that anyone was teaching noobs to drag a knee.

You called me out about nothing.
The only thing that we agree on is maybe there's not enough teaching correctly. Everything else, we are not even on the same planet of agreeing.

And if you continue to post ride threads (and now I can't quote you since you deleted), such as "Moderate Pace, you can see some good speeds. Ask me how I know. BUT HEY, it's noob friendly!"

I will continue to threadjack and tear them apart, so some noob doesn't get put in over his head and see another RIP thread.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:56 AM   #70
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Quote:
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The only thing that we agree on is maybe there's not enough teaching correctly. Everything else, we are not even on the same planet of agreeing.

And if you continue to post ride threads (and now I can't quote you since you deleted), such as "Moderate Pace, you can see some good speeds. Ask me how I know. BUT HEY, it's noob friendly!"

I will continue to threadjack and tear them apart, so some noob doesn't get put in over his head and see another RIP thread.
Your problem with that ride thread is that YOU personally tried to interpret the word moderate....not me. If you had read my original text (and now wishing it was not deleted) that described the ride it would be crystal clear to anyone who can read and interpret the english language that this ride was not about going fast. A point which I would have reiterated prior to leaving as the leader.
I also provided a dictionary definition of the word moderate (not a motohouston definition) of the word moderate to clarify. Moreover, if someone reads the thread title but not the thread and makes an assumption, shame on them and they would gain the correct understanding prior to the beginning of the ride. How I choose to describe or articulate an idea is left up to me. Your issue was with the word moderate as you chose to understand it.
Noob does not mean stupid and I am pretty sure most people can read something and decipher the meaning of a paragraph.

Thanks for the threat of threadjacking but bear in mind, you have great intentions no dobut... but you are AN expert not THE expert.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:57 AM   #71
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The July 4 ride wasn't a dedicted noob to the twisties type ride. We didn't have near enough helpers to watch and teach, and it was never promoted that way.

It was just a noob paced group on a group ride.

Also, "moderate" has no place on a "noob" ride.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:11 AM   #72
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I just went to Merriam Websters dictionary and searched "noob pace" but there is no definition for that term.
I did ; however, find the definition of moderate.
So apparently that word is often used impropely around here and been bastardized into meaning something other than its true meaning.

1mod·er·ate
adj \ˈmä-d(ə-)rət\
1

a: avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits <a moderate drinker> b: calm, temperate
2

a: tending toward the mean or average amount or dimension

Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
The July 4 ride wasn't a dedicted noob to the twisties type ride. We didn't have near enough helpers to watch and teach, and it was never promoted that way.

It was just a noob paced group on a group ride.

Also, "moderate" has no place on a "noob" ride.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:24 AM   #73
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LOL!

We have "accepted" descriptions of pace for rides.... no reason to re-invent the wheel..

noob/relaxed: SL on the straights, yellow posted in corners depending on group
moderate: SL, maybe 10-15+ on straights and curves
brisk: + on the straights, up to double the yellow sign into curves
spirited: race track on the street basically

These have been in place on this forum since before it began this version back in 05.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:24 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
I just went to Merriam Websters dictionary and searched "noob pace" but there is no definition for that term.
I did ; however, find the definition of moderate.
So apparently that word is often used impropely around here and been bastardized into meaning something other than its true meaning.

1mod·er·ate
adj \ˈmä-d(ə-)rət\
1

a: avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits <a moderate drinker> b: calm, temperate
2

a: tending toward the mean or average amount or dimension
Noobs aren't average riders yet.

FAIL AGAIN MAN.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:37 AM   #75
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Noobs aren't average riders yet.

FAIL AGAIN MAN.
The word and definition was a reference to the speed not the individual.
Keep trying!
You fail to comprehend, again.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:44 AM   #76
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The word and definition was a reference to the speed not the individual.
Keep trying!
You fail to comprehend, again.
I think not, so who is eligible to ride at a moderate pace specifically?
You're defining moderate as avoiding the extreme, catering to the average.
How is anyone supposed to know what that means, it's so subjective.
A noobs average speed might be the recommended SL on turns, where mine might be DOUBLE or TRIPLE that.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:44 AM   #77
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Quote:
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Interesting discussion...it is good to hear the ideas and positive intent to teach group and general riding skills. My reaction is to avoid the younger (age) set due to concerns about egos on display, excessive speeds and risks, and low actual teaching ability. Given that, I applaud skill sharing! Information overload (fire hosing) is a classic teaching error. Many people learn best by watching first. Lack of two-way communication is a problem. A real teaching scenario would include both of the above, plus coached practice, and a lot of patience. That is why the commercial riding schools have customers I think. Maybe that is my next step.
That is what I do on my dedicated Noob to the Twisty rides.
One helper for each noob, that way the noob can follow and watch/imitate and the helpers are behind them.
We stop often, do question and answers etc.
I had a set of stands and went over basic body position on the bike, setting up controls, where to look etc
Even gave out copies of the TOTWII DVD and books on CD.

We aren't trying to do a trackday, but encourage BP to open into the turns, and work on the proper habits.

We've had people with very little experience past MSF and they did fine and had a blast... up to 20+ years experience on cruiser who wanted to get more out of the backroads.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:46 AM   #78
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Hey guys, let's all go to the man cave section. I got something to break the attention there...

Just, please in "moderation"
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #79
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Hey guys, let's all go to the man cave section. I got something to break the attention there...

Just, please in "moderation"
Look who wants to be in the center of the circle
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:52 AM   #80
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Me too and you are engaged in a war with the wrong person.
Meaning what exactly?
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