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Old 07-09-2012, 10:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrad View Post
Here are a couple of things I have noticed:

1) Noobs are often overwhelmed by information overload, ie: Every "experienced" rider wants to help...so, they give pointers..these tips will vary from rider to rider..there is no consistency = confusion.

2) Body positioning... please understand..you can take the same corner all day at different speeds and your "BP" will change accordingly...you don't NEED to hang off your bike to turn in your drive way at 10mph. ..

I believe the riding tips noobs get on a ride should come from a credible source that explains "when and why" to do "what". Noobs have to take little steps and learn a little at a time ..
Bingo, which is why I wanted to create this thread for more consistency
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:06 PM   #42
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Maybe the super noobalicious rides that follow the guidelines or are led by people on the SLR list should be labeled SLR APPROVED NOOB RIDE?
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #43
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How do we keep big groups from showing up (no more then 10) if at all, or how do we better manage a group that big?
IMO, Absolute noobs (less than 6 months of experience) should stay in one group...this group should focus only on the BASIC riding skillz (braking, corner lines/ speed)....doing posted speed limits.

noobs with 6 months to 1 year experience a second group..this group can explore more into BP and throttle control in corners.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:08 PM   #44
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Maybe the super noobalicious rides that follow the guidelines or are led by people on the SLR list should be labeled SLR APPROVED NOOB RIDE?
yes..
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
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How do we keep big groups from showing up (no more then 10)
Don't tell anyone the meet spot. They can get it via PM if they commit to the ride. I've been gone for a little bit, but back on two wheels again recently and I plan on setting up some really fun small group (<10) SMR's. Thing is I will most likely be doing it PM only. All the details will be in a thread except the exact location of the meet spot. Whoever is interested and I judge eligible for the ride will get the location of the meet spot. It is definitely different than most are used to but it is honestly just in everyone's best interest from a safety stand point. I'm gonna try it this weekend possibly and see how it goes
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:16 PM   #46
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So the noob ride needs to lean more towards actually helping the noobs throughout the ride via taking breaks and giving pointers, instead of blasting info at them pre ride and not giving much input during.

I really like Senator's idea of going Leader, noob, helper, noob, helper... However I feel that's realistically pretty hard to do depending on how many people show up.

How do we keep big groups from showing up (no more then 10) if at all, or how do we better manage a group that big? Sorry if this info has already been covered in your thread Senator, I just scanned through it.
I think you first have to make the intended purpose of the ride very clear in the initial thread. That way, people who sign up know what they're getting into. If it truly is to be a teaching ride, have your experienced helpers lined up and on board before you even post it, then set a max number of participants. That should cover a true teaching ride. Lurch did this last year and it was very successful.

The rides I've hosted have usually included 3-4 experienced regulars and could not be considered true teaching rides, IMO. The experienced riders would ride in the middle of the inexperienced riders and address issues they saw, but they can't catch everything if they're outnumbered. Only one or two of my rides have had a 1:1 ratio of vet vs. noob. I've had over 20 riders show up, with less than 1/3 being experienced. Only thing you can do if that happens is assume that everyone you've never ridden with just got their bikes yesterday and stick with a pace not more than 10-over. The leader has to constantly check his/her mirrors and watch for gaps. If you see gaps, slow down.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:16 PM   #47
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I believe a noob ride should not strictly be on twisty highways, noobs should get more acquainted with control before brought to a curvy highway, when I began riding, I used to be intimidated by twisties, and was not able to ride at PSL on them for a long time, until I felt my controlling skills were superior up to a certain speed.
Somehow I'd like to relate this to an adult learning to swim. This person should not jump in a 9ft deep pool until he/she could swim in a 3ft shallower pool
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:21 PM   #48
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I used to be intimidated by twistiesl
cough...cough..
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #49
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Quote:
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IMO, Absolute noobs (less than 6 months of experience) should stay in one group...this group should focus only on the BASIC riding skillz (braking, corner lines/ speed)....doing posted speed limits.

noobs with 6 months to 1 year experience a second group..this group can explore more into BP and throttle control in corners.
Not sure that length of time is a valid way of judging. I happen to be related to a guy who has been riding almost every day for a year....6 miles one way to and from work in a straight line. Couldn't even take a turn at the SUGGESTED speed until I finally got him down here for one of my rides a few months ago.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:26 PM   #50
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cough...cough..
Fudge it, I still am, just the ones in the red package
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:26 PM   #51
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Not sure that length of time is a valid way of judging. I happen to be related to a guy who has been riding almost every day for a year....6 miles one way to and from work in a straight line. Couldn't even take a turn at the SUGGESTED speed until I finally got him down here for one of my rides a few months ago.
True. So if he was coming with you, u would suggest he join the first group. Again some riders with 6 months experience can ride better than some with 2 years experience..
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:35 PM   #52
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True. So if he was coming with you, u would suggest he join the first group. Again some riders with 6 months experience can ride better than some with 2 years experience..
Heh...can't argue that at all. If he were to join a ride, I would definitely suggest the first group, but I know him and his skill level. How many guys show up that you know nothing at all about? How many riders would THINK they meet the criteria of the second group when in fact they're nowhere close? To prevent issues in a situation like that, it would take quite a few very dedicated helpers. Don't get me wrong...I think it would be a great thing, but it definitely couldn't be half-assed.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:14 AM   #53
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I'm all about hanging off, but it's the last thing that needs to be taught in a noob ride riders meeting. First learn and be proficient in steering while keeping the body centered with the bike, then learn to hang off if you like.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:21 AM   #54
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pinball, bill, is this the picture you guys are looking for?
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:23 AM   #55
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Interesting discussion...it is good to hear the ideas and positive intent to teach group and general riding skills. My reaction is to avoid the younger (age) set due to concerns about egos on display, excessive speeds and risks, and low actual teaching ability. Given that, I applaud skill sharing! Information overload (fire hosing) is a classic teaching error. Many people learn best by watching first. Lack of two-way communication is a problem. A real teaching scenario would include both of the above, plus coached practice, and a lot of patience. That is why the commercial riding schools have customers I think. Maybe that is my next step.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:25 AM   #56
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Man, you guys are making noob rides sound soooo much fun

It's simple, the OP sets the tone and stick to that, no flip flopping on the thread when someone tries to ask about going faster. Let them know op states the rules ans that is that, they can always find another ride or fall in line.

We had a noob ride with Texlurch that was about 20 of us, we stuck to the rules and helpers and noobs had a lot of fun

Same thing on another ride I put together, we were about 20 and we had a great time.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:58 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Well apparently body position is "all for show".

These are the types of comments we need to avoid because body position has nothing to do with geometry and traction, not to mention looking through turns.
I am positive that Senator did not mean to take a quote completely out of context when writing a contribution to this thread.
Here is the complete statement so that others can understand where the show issue came from.

"Perhaps all of the finer details of body positioning should be restated in another sticky thread but I stand by my original position that unless you know how and why your bike is steering, all of that BP is show and will probably get you dead without proper training and context."


That is a lot differnt comment than "all body position is show".
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:05 AM   #58
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***I want to make one thing clear again, these are just guidelines for noob rides. I'm not trying to dictate how you ride with your friends. Before my last track bike, we used to have "spirited rides" all the time. BUT YOU NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT like Dudewhrsmybike said. Keep it to PM, or make it clear that noobs are not allowed if you post publicly. This way if someone is riding above their head, it's clearly their fault alone. Noobs don't understand "ride your own ride" yet however.

Quote:
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So the noob ride needs to lean more towards actually helping the noobs throughout the ride via taking breaks and giving pointers, instead of blasting info at them pre ride and not giving much input during.

I really like Senator's idea of going Leader, noob, helper, noob, helper... However I feel that's realistically pretty hard to do depending on how many people show up.

How do we keep big groups from showing up (no more then 10) if at all, or how do we better manage a group that big? Sorry if this info has already been covered in your thread Senator, I just scanned through it.
It can be hard unless you limit the number of people like TexLurch did on his ride. Ivan said it best below. Yes it was slow, but everyone had a blast because everyone came home in one piece, helpers felt good about passing on knowledge and noobs got a little more seat time and some advice no one might have told them before.

If you don't get many helpers, noobs should be at the front of a group ride following a leader and maybe one helper who can effectively SET THE PACE and stick to it= no slowing down to hit the corners and so forth. Do not depend on people in the middle.

Like covered in my thread, the pace is generally as fast and the slowest person is comfortably going.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:11 AM   #59
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I am positive that Senator did not mean to take a quote completely out of context when writing a contribution to this thread.
Here is the complete statement so that others can understand where the show issue came from.

"Perhaps all of the finer details of body positioning should be restated in another sticky thread but I stand by my original position that unless you know how and why your bike is steering, all of that BP is show and will probably get you dead without proper training and context."

That is a lot differnt comment than "all body position is show".
I absolutely took that way out of context and put a bright sign on it, in order to show how ridiculous of a statement that is. Some noob is going to read that and think it's okay that when he "steers" into a turn and his body is still perpendicular to the ground like a dirtbike.

You keep thinking of track and dragging knee when referring to body position, but I'd hope after your 28 years of riding that anything you do with your body on a motorcycle constitutes body position.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
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"all of that BP is show and will probably get you dead without proper training and context."
Uh, if your body is on a bike, it is in a position
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