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Old 07-05-2012, 09:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
The farther you look, slower it feels, and where you look, the bike will go!
I really like this advice ... looking out further into your intended direction gives your brain the impression its immediate danger level is lower.

When we are not in danger/survival mode our responses are more accurate to (ever-changing) upcoming decisions to be made.

That really makes sense, and is easily converted to real-life experience for most everyone.

On this same line of thinking everyone is different in what scares them. I know when I was 12 years old, and hanging onto motocross handle bars, nothing seemed to scare me (compared to now).

As I've gotten older, fear seems to appear sooner and more often.

Conditioning ourselves to appreciate fear as a positive survival reaction, and not something related to any kind of failure, is a combination of intelligence and maturity.

Last edited by Squid; 07-05-2012 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #22
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One thing, you aren't "pushing down" on the bars, you are pushing to turn them, just the opposite of the direction you want to go.

If you are trying to push the bar down to make the bike lean, you are just wasting effort.

Just have your forearms parallel to the ground, push the inside bar (forward, not down) and see what happens. No body input other than that is required.

Even at noob pace, I encourage peeps to relax and stick out the inside leg a bit, and get the upper body over to the inside. This just naturally helps you to point your head and body in the direction you want the bike to go.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #23
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Personally, I may ride inside - outside - inside, but that's dangerous if you don't know the corner.

If you start to wander wide and the turn gets tighter or is longer than you expected... it can suck.

Drift out wide only after you can see the straight, or if you know that area REALLY well.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:12 AM   #24
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I get off the bike to build muscle memory. Just look where you want to go and remember to have fun. Who gives a what everyone else is doing with their BP, and technique as long as they are riding within their limits and having fun.t
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy42083 View Post
Personally, I may ride inside - outside - inside, but that's dangerous if you don't know the corner.

If you start to wander wide and the turn gets tighter or is longer than you expected... it can suck.

Drift out wide only after you can see the straight, or if you know that area REALLY well.
Don't ride race lines on the street; it just puts you in the wrong spots on the road. It also tends to make less experienced riders turn in too soon.

Better to go deeper in the turn, look for the exit, and then make a tighter turn.

You end up father from the edges, and from the center line.

Plus you get to play with more lean angles and the fun of turning a bike.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:15 AM   #26
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I personally feel that the outside-inside-outside stuff should be left to the track. On the street you should be dead nuts in the middle of the turn. Learning to hold that exact line - right in the middle - is a useful skill in and of itself.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:18 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I personally feel that the outside-inside-outside stuff should be left to the track. On the street you should be dead nuts in the middle of the turn. Learning to hold that exact line - right in the middle - is a useful skill in and of itself.
You mean exactly halfway between the path of a car's tires? That's not always a good idea
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:19 AM   #28
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:20 AM   #29
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eh... my other concern with inside - outside - inside... is in the turn. I'd prefer to keep my tires in one of the car tire paths usually. Too many turns have a pile of gravel in the middle, which is clean in the car tire paths.
I'd say I generally ride on the inside of the turn (to have space to go wide if need be around obstacle), and so I can roll on the throttle once I see the turn opening up to the straight... in which case some gravel isn't an issue cause I'm straightening out.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:21 AM   #30
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So now, go ahead and jump in my for stating the obvious, but if we are a community dedicated to helping and improving new riders, then these issues must be discussed.
Let the flames begin.....
Thanks for starting the thread. More information from several viewpoints is good. I occasionally hang off on the street for practice, as that is an area that I need to improve upon on the track (I'm dragging pegs) and just can't seem to get my a** off the seat. When doing so on the street, I try to do it when no one else is around, so as to not worsen the "crazy sportbike rider" reputation.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:42 AM   #31
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Anyway, I watched so many riders today, moving thier legs out, and off the seat in a "quasi roadracer" stance to simply go around rather mundane sweepers that it was mind boggling.
WTF?

.
i assume there were no crashes? if so they countersteered.

they are just racer-boy posing, i mean they ride sportbikes, so they gotta play the part, even though sounds like they coulda made the turn w/o posturing.

its basically PP1 on the road.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:46 AM   #32
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i assume there were no crashes? if so they countersteered.

they are just racer-boy posing, i mean they ride sportbikes, so they gotta play the part, even though sounds like they coulda made the turn w/o posturing.

its basically PP1 on the road.
Can I buy some of your scraped up knee pucks?
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:46 AM   #33
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not this thread again!!!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:46 AM   #34
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I wasn't there, but maybe some people want to practice body positioning.

I know I do.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:48 AM   #35
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not this thread again!!!!
Don't make me start a "Shell ROTELLA T" thread
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
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You mean exactly halfway between the path of a car's tires? That's not always a good idea
Seems to me, it leaves a margin of error for oncoming traiffic in right-handers on turn-entry that starting from the outside doesn't.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:54 AM   #37
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Don't make me start a "Shell ROTELLA T" thread
How do I drag knee?????
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:57 AM   #38
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Seems to me, it leaves a margin of error for oncoming traiffic in right-handers on turn-entry that starting from the outside doesn't.
Then you're left wondering if there's debris or oil on the ground right in your path.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:58 AM   #39
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Quote:
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Thanks for starting the thread. More information from several viewpoints is good. I occasionally hang off on the street for practice, as that is an area that I need to improve upon on the track (I'm dragging pegs) and just can't seem to get my a** off the seat. When doing so on the street, I try to do it when no one else is around, so as to not worsen the "crazy sportbike rider" reputation.
I applaud your sensibilities


The overarching point here is:
New riders build on basic skills and fundamentals. Starting , stopping, turning, etc..
New riders should learn why thier bike turns the way it does and not be fooled into thinking that moving your off of the seat is THE WAY to turn a sportbike. I would venture to guess that if you took 5 riders new to thier sportbike who were in "I have to hang my off the seat of a sportbike to turn because that is what I see in racing" mode and or "it looks cool" and put them on the back of a cruiser, you would see a different result.
Building on an already developed skillset (i.e. countersteering) to advance your riding skills necessary to go faster in situations like racing, track days, or real spirited riding is 100% warranted and called for.
The question that all riders have to ask themselves (definitely me included) is that when you are moving at a fast clip, are you gonna hit that obstacle in your path or steer around it and give yourself a chance?
The only way to develop the conscience muscle memory to give yourself the confidence and skill to turn tighter when necessary or quickly go around an object in your path is to practice counter steering religiously and " off the seat" turning when new aint gonna get you there.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #40
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Quote:
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BTW... If my sport bike weighed nearly as much as my harley I probably wouldnt ride "quasi roadracer" and wouldnt lean as much either. HAHAHA..... I think the ZX14 is pushing 600 LBS isnt it ? Yes... I understand they can go 200 MPH !
Mine....more like 750lbs with my fat on it.
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