MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > Technical > Performance and Modifications
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 06-30-2012, 10:39 PM   #21
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,403

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






Your shortened oil change levels are why you're not seeing the shear break down imo.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who uses Rotella T? Oil you use in general? Fastola General Discussion (Moto Related) 26 01-10-2013 02:19 PM
Rotella T6 jaso MA where to buy? Petro General Discussion (Moto Related) 7 02-24-2012 12:06 AM
Shell Rotella Synthetic Oil randomwalk101 General Discussion (Moto Related) 8 04-19-2010 07:33 AM
Advertisement
Old 06-30-2012, 10:49 PM   #22
mrbzx7
Senior Member
 
mrbzx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Houston SE
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 367

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2009 Kawasaki ZX10R
1983 Kawasaki KZ1100
1990 Kawasaki KX60 Supermotard




I run Rotella T non syn in zx10 with no complaints, it does get changed after about 20 passes or so and no real street miles. I seen a bunch of threads about it in dragbikes and a lot of people with big money motors use it. I will say its the only non motorcycle oil I will use or recommend cause it doesn't have all the detergents that automotive oils have, and its has zinc. I never tried the T6 syn.
__________________
Andrews Motorsports 09 ZX10R aka The General
mrbzx7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 11:44 AM   #23
bluewave18
Safety Third
 
bluewave18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: S.E.
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 34,559

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
08 Busa
03 XR 50








I also run it. I do 1000 ish mile intervals as well
bluewave18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 03:38 PM   #24
gixxre750
Senior Member
 
gixxre750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 588












pretty sure they have taken the zinc out of rotella now. Bill Vose (builds some of the fastest promods/grudge bikes in the world) was talking about it, thats why he switched to delvac.
gixxre750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 09:47 PM   #25
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,403

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxre750 View Post
pretty sure they have taken the zinc out of rotella now. Bill Vose (builds some of the fastest promods/grudge bikes in the world) was talking about it, thats why he switched to delvac.
I'd heard the same about the zinc.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #26
dudewhrsmybike
Moderator
 
dudewhrsmybike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Galleria
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,665

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R ABS




Member Garage





Send a message via AIM to dudewhrsmybike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
This reason alone is why I recommend motorcycle specific oil; it's increased shear strength.
You can tell a lot about the performance of an oil by the condition of the main and rod bearings when you disassemble the engine.
In 30 plus years I've seen the insides of more engines than I care to remember.. Most of the ones I've seen that were run with Rotella or other car based oils show pretty high wear. My 2 cente ymmv.
Just out of curiosity, what would you say are the top 3 moto specific oils you would recommend.

Also, I feel like I should know this by now, but is there a specific mileage range that would be ideal to start using full syn. ? I know opinions vary on these things but I want to hear it from you because like you said in the post above, I know you've seen a lot over the years.

Last edited by dudewhrsmybike; 07-01-2012 at 11:22 PM.
dudewhrsmybike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 01:37 AM   #27
Zephyr
Senior Member
 
Zephyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tomball/Spring
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 233

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
Yami Raider
Sv650s (sold)








I've run the horrible fluid terror of the oil industry in my SV650 for years and had nothing but good results...but then again I payed for the bike so what do I care. But then again I pay someone else to change my oil on my $16,000 bike and they suggest conventional oil. I say if you feel your bike goes good down the road...Keep doing what you're doing
Zephyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 08:09 AM   #28
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,403

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






Quote:
Originally Posted by dudewhrsmybike View Post
Just out of curiosity, what would you say are the top 3 moto specific oils you would recommend.

Also, I feel like I should know this by now, but is there a specific mileage range that would be ideal to start using full syn. ? I know opinions vary on these things but I want to hear it from you because like you said in the post above, I know you've seen a lot over the years.
The top 3?
Probably Motul, Honda GN4 and Amsoil.

As far as when to change to synthetic?
Imo on most of todays engines that have hard chrome rings and nikasil cylinders I like to wait till at least 6k to go to full syn. so as not to inhibit full ring seating.

A few years back I was involved in some testing on volumetric efficiency-VE.
We saw a small, but measurable increase in VE on multiple engines after 5-7k miles.
Most of that increase was attributable to increased piston/cylinder seal.
Now, that's my opinion based on the experiences I have had. I'm certain there are others that will disagree.
That said, I view oil this way: would you rather gamble that you're causing an issue by running a type of oil or would you rather know that the oil you're running won't cause an issue?

For me, it's pretty much established that running a good quality motorcycle specific oil will avoid any oil related issues in my bikes.
I have 2 air cooled and one oil cooled motorcycle, and they're hard on oil, so I monitor them closely. I currently run Motul in all of them.
As far as Rotella T, we've run it in all of our farm equipment/diesel trucks for years, but have some concern now that the zinc has rumored to have been removed.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 09:23 AM   #29
dudewhrsmybike
Moderator
 
dudewhrsmybike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Galleria
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,665

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R ABS




Member Garage





Send a message via AIM to dudewhrsmybike
Great response Patrick, I will keep that in mind for my oil changes. All this new talk about Rotella is news to me...
__________________


It's GREEN, it's FAST, and it says Ninja on it
dudewhrsmybike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 05:57 PM   #30
Blanco
BORC O.G.
 
Blanco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cypress
Feedback Rating: (5)
Posts: 3,075

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2013 ZX10R & 09 ZX-14
'09 R1 (homeboy shopping network donation)
'07 ZX14 (sold)
'01 FZ1 (sold)
ZRX1100 (sold)






Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasPsyclone View Post
If any question about performance remains, I would definitely switch to a motorcycle specific oil as was mentioned above. Mobile-1 Synthetic has served me well. $9.99/qt @ Wal-Mart.
I know people always see the need to save money these days, but IMO, going ultra cheap on wear items & consumables (tires/chains/oil and the like) almost always leads to more problems than it solves. My oil change costs around $40. I prefer, however, to look at the .01⅓ cent/mile expense as cheap insurance which has paid off. At 48,000 miles of pretty aggressive riding, I'd say its worth it.
I am in your camp brother! Mobile 1 has been a good friend of mine.
I used to be snagged up on using Motul synthethic until Sport Rider Magazine published a really great article about oils (probably Y2K or 2001).
1) Motul was not compared directly against Mobile 1 or ROtella
2) THe most interesting thing in the article was that Mobile 1 was analyzed and compared to HONDA synthetic motorcycle oil....and guess what, the amount (percentage) of friction modifiers in Mobile One was almost identical to the HONDA oil.
3) Friction Modifiers in some car oils can up things (can someone say Royal Purple?) causing clutch slippage due to the abudance of Moly in the oil.
4) Mobile One? Nope!

I have run Mobile One in every bike, quad, and dirt bike of mine...hard....and not a problem.
I also change my oils more frequently than recommended not because I believe that my engine will blow but because your transmission will shift smoother with fresh oil. I like that feeling.
I know that someone is going to contend that is one of the issues with using a car oil instead of a motorcycle specific oil. Shearing in the transmission causes breakdowns in the oil which give you that ..not as easy to shift as it was with fresh oil feeling.
Bullshit because the motorcyle oils do the same thing.

I cannot believe I even typed this because it is a circular argument and one that will never be resolved 100% anywhere.

At the end of the day, choose a good quality oil and change frequently and you will have peace of mind!!!!!
Blanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 06:19 PM   #31
Blanco
BORC O.G.
 
Blanco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cypress
Feedback Rating: (5)
Posts: 3,075

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2013 ZX10R & 09 ZX-14
'09 R1 (homeboy shopping network donation)
'07 ZX14 (sold)
'01 FZ1 (sold)
ZRX1100 (sold)






Here is a more current oil artilce from Sport Rider.
It has enough date to give you a headache.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
Blanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 06:21 PM   #32
cuong-nutz
Resident 250 guru
 
cuong-nutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Feedback Rating: (9)
Posts: 4,612

Experience: 1-3 months

Bike(s):
Ninjer 250









Quote:
Originally Posted by 07Blanco View Post
Here is a more current oil artilce from Sport Rider.
It has enough date to give you a headache.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
I actually posted the link for that a few posts up top
__________________
250cc's of pure Nutz
Ninjette Stunt Life Stunt Ride
cuong-nutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 06:41 PM   #33
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,403

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






I remember reading the articles almost 10 years ago.
What I took away from it was this:
While the four-ball wear test shows that particular automobile and motorcycle-specific oils perform identically, the heat and viscosity shear tests show otherwise.

We did, however, unequivocally answer a few questions. For one, most name-brand motorcycle-specific oils are indeed different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand, debunking a common myth. Mobil One automotive oil is definitely different than its motorcycle-specific version. The same is true for the three oils provided by Castrol, showing that both companies have different goals when formulating their automotive and motorcycle products.

Like I originally stated, there is a difference in formulation between automotive and motorcycle oils. As such, I prefer to use motorcycle specific oils in my bikes and the bikes I maintain. My 2 cents, ymmv.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 06:48 PM   #34
Blanco
BORC O.G.
 
Blanco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cypress
Feedback Rating: (5)
Posts: 3,075

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2013 ZX10R & 09 ZX-14
'09 R1 (homeboy shopping network donation)
'07 ZX14 (sold)
'01 FZ1 (sold)
ZRX1100 (sold)






Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I remember reading the articles almost 10 years ago.
What I took away from it was this:
While the four-ball wear test shows that particular automobile and motorcycle-specific oils perform identically, the heat and viscosity shear tests show otherwise.

We did, however, unequivocally answer a few questions. For one, most name-brand motorcycle-specific oils are indeed different than common automotive oils, even within the same brand, debunking a common myth. Mobil One automotive oil is definitely different than its motorcycle-specific version. The same is true for the three oils provided by Castrol, showing that both companies have different goals when formulating their automotive and motorcycle products.

Like I originally stated, there is a difference in formulation between automotive and motorcycle oils. As such, I prefer to use motorcycle specific oils in my bikes and the bikes I maintain. My 2 cents, ymmv.
I know, I read them too.
I also knew I was headed down a crazy path with this thread!
I will continue down my personal path of motor destruction until something compelling changes my mind.

I do love a good oil argument from timne to time!
Blanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 07:46 PM   #35
gixxre750
Senior Member
 
gixxre750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 588












Im currently using Brad Penn racing oil. Very high in zinc! Only place locally that sells it is Smileys, and they carry it by the pallet. Lots of race engine builders use/swear by it. I have nothing bad to say about it so far
gixxre750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2012, 08:11 PM   #36
bluewave18
Safety Third
 
bluewave18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: S.E.
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 34,559

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
08 Busa
03 XR 50








Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxre750 View Post
Im currently using Brad Penn racing oil. Very high in zinc! Only place locally that sells it is Smileys, and they carry it by the pallet. Lots of race engine builders use/swear by it. I have nothing bad to say about it so far
I saw Shane Stubbs pot a pic of a pallet of it on FB. He said come and get it
bluewave18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 12:39 AM   #37
mrbzx7
Senior Member
 
mrbzx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Houston SE
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 367

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2009 Kawasaki ZX10R
1983 Kawasaki KZ1100
1990 Kawasaki KX60 Supermotard




Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxre750 View Post
Im currently using Brad Penn racing oil. Very high in zinc! Only place locally that sells it is Smileys, and they carry it by the pallet. Lots of race engine builders use/swear by it. I have nothing bad to say about it so far
What does it run a qt?
__________________
Andrews Motorsports 09 ZX10R aka The General
mrbzx7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 02:18 AM   #38
ZaXoS
Senior Member
 
ZaXoS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 397

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
R1100S
GSX-R
VFR 750
Africa Twin (XRV-750)
CB750-k1






Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
This reason alone is why I recommend motorcycle specific oil; it's increased shear strength.
You can tell a lot about the performance of an oil by the condition of the main and rod bearings when you disassemble the engine.
In 30 plus years I've seen the insides of more engines than I care to remember.. Most of the ones I've seen that were run with Rotella or other car based oils show pretty high wear. My 2 cente ymmv.
But according to this, the current Rotella (blue bottle synthetic 5w40 CJ-4) and Rotella 15W40 (not synthetic) are motorcycle specific.
Wouldn't the specification JASO-MA in the back of the bottle make it motorcycle specific?

From the Shell forums back in 2008.

"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.

All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."

If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore
Staff Engineer
Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.
__________________
ZaXoS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 05:19 AM   #39
RACER X
what R you lookin' at?
 
RACER X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Feedback Rating: (26)
Posts: 33,923

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 8

Bike(s):
2015 Ducati Monster 1200S
'14 Honda GROM! 181cc of fury!!-SOLD
'10 Aprilia Tuono Factory-SOLD
'08 Busa - sold
A few more sold






Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbzx7 View Post
What does it run a qt?
$75/12 DELIVERED

~$6-7/QT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brad-Penn-Ha...ht_3029wt_1159
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
2015 Ducati Monster 1200S
RACER X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #40
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,403

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaXoS View Post
But according to this, the current Rotella (blue bottle synthetic 5w40 CJ-4) and Rotella 15W40 (not synthetic) are motorcycle specific.
Wouldn't the specification JASO-MA in the back of the bottle make it motorcycle specific?

From the Shell forums back in 2008.

"We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40, Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) and our soon to be introduced (within the next 2 months) Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.

All three oils passed the wet clutch friction test. Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 (CI-4) has more than 1.2% ash (JASO MA spec limit) so it can not be classified as JASO MA. However, Rotella T with Triple Protection 15W-40 and our soon to be introduced Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 do meet JASO MA."

If you have any additional questions please call us at 800-231-6950.
Thank you for your interest in Shell products."

Richard Moore
Staff Engineer
Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.
I wasn't aware they passed the JASO certification, BUT if Cuong is showing significant shear reduction in his oil than while it may have passed, it could have been on the lower side of the spectrum.
I think it's been a damned fine diesel engine oil, and knowing what I know about the 2 different engines it's difficult for me to buy into the whole one oil fits all scenario.

Internet discussions about oil can go on forever. Imo, based upon motorcycle engines I've seen, I'm not a huge fan of Rotella in motorcycles.
I wasn't before they had JASO certification and unless I see some new real life data to make me think otherwise I'm still not.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy