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Old 01-04-2007, 02:21 PM   #81
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Maybe if we all teamed up with so many vast opinions we could create an amazing new helmet standard.

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Old 01-04-2007, 02:31 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Maybe if we all teamed up with so many vast opinions we could create an amazing new helmet standard.

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Sounds good to me. May be the old tired arguments could finally be laid to rest.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:43 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
hey witchdoctor...(and anyone who wants to chime in)

Do you know much about fulmer helmets?(i.e. overall quality/comfort vs. price)
I saw one at a shop (dirt cheap price) but don't know much about 'em... may pick one up for grins though. Whatcha think?
The one guy on here whose helmet split in two when he crashed last year had a Fulmer. I think his name is Thorn?
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Old 01-04-2007, 04:58 PM   #84
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I have heard about the problems with the Scorpion helmets, I believe they were a cheap copy of a Shark. The guy went to Europe copied the Shark helmets and sold them in the US market with scantly clad girls.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:00 PM   #85
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i have two scorpian helmets and have no problem with them..anything is better then nothing.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:06 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Throwback
i have two scorpian helmets and have no problem with them..anything is better then nothing.
Your right all the helmets meet a minimum criteria when they pass the DOT. So I wouldn't worry.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:10 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Throwback
i have two scorpian helmets
+1, just replaced my other one at Christmas. A lot of people are switching to them for the great value.

PS: The anti-fog is not some gimmick. It works outstanding and I tried all sorts of tricks on the HJC backup helmet I have and nothing beats the visor of the Scorpion.

If I'd go with an expensive one, I would try the AGV.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:13 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia
PS: The anti-fog is not some gimmick. It works outstanding and I tried all sorts of tricks on the HJC backup helmet I have and nothing beats the visor of the Scorpion.
I didn't mean to imply that it didn't work, just that it's nothing special and that it's not a reason to buy a Scorpion unless you're enamored with some of its other features. I have a $15 Respro Foggy breath guard, I can take it out and install it on any helmet I get, and no fog. I'm sure Fog City and Cat work well too.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:22 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Dude seriously, I understand the scietific portion but science in this area is not going to provide the results found with actual crashes. Simply because as you stated most of them are not easily replicated. And a helmet not cracking due to certain impact forces does not mean that your skull will not crack. And other testing on absorbtion does not mean that your helmet that has done so well in a lab is going to save your life when you hit your head just the right way when wrecking. Again, science provides a great standards and certification for helmets but does not provide real world evidence that is acrued from racing. For instance, we can test in a lab all day long and make what seems to be a great helmet but how it performs when I lowside in a turn and the guy behind me runs my head over is what I am intersted in.
Crash studies can be useful, but only if you've got an extremely smart bunch of folks working on it. What they would do, is study every crash in extreme detail and try to relate the forces in the crash to scientific values that could be replicated in lab tests and applied to future helmets. ie "sliding at 140mph" doesn't really cut it. They would ask for the dynamics of the crash, if a rider lowsided on the track midcorner for instance you might guess that his head was about two feet above the ground. This is pretty much a baby crash at any speed unless you start to tumble. Then you could relate the 2 feet and the weight of the helmet/head to an applied force, maybe the shoulder hit first and took some of the blow, etc..

I suppose there is some chance that such a crew of engineers works for Arai, but I'd bet there are more of them who have worked on the various testing standards around the world. Sadly I don't believe there have been very many extensive crash studies. There was Hurt a long time ago, a couple of studies mentioned in the Motorcyclist article from overseas, and Snell has done some on other types of helmets, bicycles for example.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:32 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
There is data out there. I deleted all the links I had because this is all a moot issue that comes up every 6 months or so. Do your own research so you can answer your own questions. The main issue of this thread was arai having a failure. guess what all helmets do. What I want in a helmet manufacturer is great quality control and back up their product thru thick and thin. Like you say, there are numerous ways to have a impact. No 2 helmets will fare in the same manner. There are no real world tests for helmets because no 2 mishaps are the same. I buy helmets based on alot of factors. Sure most helmets out there can prevent a head injury. Not all have adequate air ventilation. That is important to me as in i sweat like a hog. If I am too busy wiping sweat out of my eyes to see where i am driving because of no air flow, how is that a quality helmet? if the helmet lifts on me and I have to let lose of the controls to push the helmet back on my head, how is that a good helmet? If rain splashes in to my eyes through a poorly designed sheild system, how is that a good helmet?
My only question was whether you had noticed a trend of more expensive helmets transmitting fewer g's. Only you can answer that. In the data I have seen there is no such trend.

Regarding overall quality, you're preaching to the choir here, I have an Arai, which just replaced a Shoei. I've had the shield flip up on a crappy helmet at 60mph and it wasn't fun not being able to see. I'm not buying another helmet without some sort of shield lock.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
My only question was whether you had noticed a trend of more expensive helmets transmitting fewer g's. Only you can answer that. In the data I have seen there is no such trend.

Regarding overall quality, you're preaching to the choir here, I have an Arai, which just replaced a Shoei. I've had the shield flip up on a crappy helmet at 60mph and it wasn't fun not being able to see. I'm not buying another helmet without some sort of shield lock.
Actually what I said was do your own research. Nothing anybody says will sway your opinion. Look for yourself. I did.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:44 PM   #92
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This is a very good read...

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...helmet_review/
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:44 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Crash studies can be useful, but only if you've got an extremely smart bunch of folks working on it. What they would do, is study every crash in extreme detail and try to relate the forces in the crash to scientific values that could be replicated in lab tests and applied to future helmets. ie "sliding at 140mph" doesn't really cut it. They would ask for the dynamics of the crash, if a rider lowsided on the track midcorner for instance you might guess that his head was about two feet above the ground. This is pretty much a baby crash at any speed unless you start to tumble. Then you could relate the 2 feet and the weight of the helmet/head to an applied force, maybe the shoulder hit first and took some of the blow, etc..

I suppose there is some chance that such a crew of engineers works for Arai, but I'd bet there are more of them who have worked on the various testing standards around the world. Sadly I don't believe there have been very many extensive crash studies. There was Hurt a long time ago, a couple of studies mentioned in the Motorcyclist article from overseas, and Snell has done some on other types of helmets, bicycles for example.
I would think the saftey equipment manufactures work close with the top racers and racing teams to understand the dynamics of crashes and the affects it has on their equipment.(These teams are already capturing telematry data and video.) And I would think this is what pushes the development of the helmets and other gear and why the price reflects the options now available to the rest of us a riders and racers. Although, it would be interesting to get someone closer to the industry to comment on this type of activity.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:44 PM   #94
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I took me two weeks of searching for 3 or 4 hours a day to find enough info to make my mind up. It drove the wife crazy. I don't remember the links I came across but I valued the info i came across. Obviously this is a highly controversial topic and there is loads of info and opinions on this subject. We are beating a dead horse on the matter. Use the search option on the board and find more info in the threads we have had in the past.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:45 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
Actually what I said was do your own research. Nothing anybody says will sway your opinion. Look for yourself. I did.
I'm not going to argue the semantics of what you said any further. But, I think you're full of :icon_bigg

Did you see the g values in this article?

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...helmet_review/
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:46 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
I'm not going to argue the semantics of what you said any further. But, I think you're full of :icon_bigg

Did you see the g values in this article?

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...helmet_review/
Did you read the WHOLE article or just look at values?
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:49 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
Did you read the WHOLE article or just look at values?
I read the whole article a while back and was looking for it throughout reading this thread. Finally found it ... definitely putting it into my favorites now.

Did you read:

Quote:
The stiffest helmets in the Big Drop test, the Arai Tracker GTs, hit our hypothetical head with an average of 243 peak Gs. The softest helmets, the Z1R ZRP-1s, bonked the noggin with an average of 176 peak Gs. This is a classic comparison of a stiff, fiberglass, Snell-rated helmet, the Arai, against a softer, polycarbonate-shell, DOT-only helmet, the Z1R. OK. So let's agree that we want to subject our heads to the minimum possible G force. Should we pick an impressive, expensive fiberglass/Kevlar/unobtanium-fiber helmet—or one of those less-expensive plastic-shelled helmets?
Quote:
The DOT helmets we had were all plastic-shelled, and none cost more than $100. How did they do? They kicked . In what must be considered a head-impact Cinderella story, the DOT-only helmets from Z1R delivered less average G force to the headform through all the impacts than any others in the test.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:50 PM   #98
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What about ICON Helmets, yalls opinion?
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:50 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
I would think the saftey equipment manufactures work close with the top racers and racing teams to understand the dynamics of crashes and the affects it has on their equipment.(These teams are already capturing telematry data and video.) And I would think this is what pushes the development of the helmets and other gear and why the price reflects the options now available to the rest of us a riders and racers. Although, it would be interesting to get someone closer to the industry to comment on this type of activity.
I wouldn't put too much emphasis on price. A plastic helmet costs less than a composite helmet because it is less labor intensive to manufacture. You can see this within the same brand, like HJC. A Shoei or Arai costs more than HJC, Scorpion or whatever else because it's made in a first world country and not Korea or China. The people making an Arai get a working wage you and I could live off of. Sure, quality might have something to do with it but I think it's mostly a reflection of other factors. Speculation of course.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:51 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
I'm not going to argue the semantics of what you said any further. But, I think you're full of :icon_bigg

Did you see the g values in this article?

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...helmet_review/

Dude...lets get this straight. I like my shoei. Only I have to like it because I spent the money on it. If you are happy with DOT standards and like cheaper helmet go get a wal mart bell helmet. I DON'T CARE. It your head not mine. I am comfortable with my decision. I make enough money that I don't have to cringe at dropping 1300.00 dollars on 2 shoeis. They fit my focked up head and like no other does.
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