MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


FREE MH Decals by MAIL!

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2007, 01:51 PM   #61
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
That really doesn't work, you need scientific tests.

I've seen people who have fallen off of bikes wearing next to nothing and come out fine. Their Tshirts and flip flops were "proven" but I'd rather put my trust in something more precise.
How much more of a scientific test do you want? My head sliding down the track at 140mph doesn't provide enough scientific results? The track is where all equipment proves its worth. It is why we have such amazing motorcycles and safety equipment now days. Not some retarted test in a lab. I am not saying they should not use some kind of procedures to certify equipment but the better manufactures are going to be involved with racing. This is where everything is pushed to its limits and real feedback is provided. I seriously can not believe you just said you want more scientific testing. :laughing6
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should we ban guns morvegil The Circus 77 07-22-2011 04:06 PM
Ban!!!! BigComfy The Circus 4 01-26-2010 07:15 PM
BAN???? JDUB Off Topic 77 12-03-2008 06:22 PM
Ban vs Warning Pyrofallout Forum Updates & Feedback 39 11-05-2008 11:14 PM
Advertisement
Old 01-04-2007, 01:51 PM   #62
NOsquid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 111












Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
No price isn't, but there are no higher end helmets on the recall list. fulmer, hci, hjc, vemar and zamp all had helmets on the list. hmmmm...
Well it isn't like the more expensive companies don't fail inspections, as you can see with Arai here. Perhaps they are able to respond better to the ensuing investigations and take measures at the production level so that a full recall is not necessary. Maybe it will be determined that it's a fluke. I really have no idea. For sure looking at the lists of helmets that DOT has tested in recent years you will note that there are lots of failures, but very few recalls.

I'm usually more keen to put my trust in a reputable (not necessarily expensive) company, but this Arai stuff has me doubting my reasoning. I'm very skeptical of basing anything on price. All the leather suit tests I've seen in European magazines have bling bling like Alpinestars and Dainese performing pretty poorly.

Last edited by NOsquid; 01-04-2007 at 01:53 PM.
NOsquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:52 PM   #63
NOsquid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 111












Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
Do your homework then. There is loads of info out there on the web. It took me 2 weeks of studying to find that out.
Find what out?
NOsquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:53 PM   #64
NOsquid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 111












Quote:
Originally Posted by Del
Was just sayin....dont be an a$$hat.......
Was trying to be helpful, sorry.
NOsquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:55 PM   #65
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Well it isn't like the more expensive companies don't fail inspections, as you can see with Arai here. Perhaps they are able to respond better to the ensuing investigations and take measures at the production level so that a full recall is not necessary. Maybe it will be determined that it's a fluke. I really have no idea. Fpr sure looking at the lists of helmets that DOT has tested in recent years you will not that there are lots of failures, but very few recalls.

I'm usually more keen to put my trust in a reputable (not necessarily expensive) company, but this Arai stuff has me doubting my reasoning. I'm very skeptical of basing anything on price. All the leather suit tests I've seen in European magazines have bling bling like Alpinestars and Dainese performing pretty poorly.

I would tend to trust a company that takes care of its failed helmets before they have to recall them. It speaks loads of the character to want to take care of it customers. Why would you trust a company that has to be forced by the gov. to recall its helmets. Doing a recall isn't cheap for any company.
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:55 PM   #66
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Well it isn't like the more expensive companies don't fail inspections, as you can see with Arai here. Perhaps they are able to respond better to the ensuing investigations and take measures at the production level so that a full recall is not necessary. Maybe it will be determined that it's a fluke. I really have no idea. Fpr sure looking at the lists of helmets that DOT has tested in recent years you will not that there are lots of failures, but very few recalls.

I'm usually more keen to put my trust in a reputable (not necessarily expensive) company, but this Arai stuff has me doubting my reasoning. I'm very skeptical of basing anything on price. All the leather suit tests I've seen in European magazines have bling bling like Alpinestars and Dainese performing pretty poorly.
Most people are aware that the most expensive is not always the best. That is why using reputable sources with a good overview of what is happening in the industry is indespensible when making decisions about safety equipment.

That is also why Patrick offers free testing of all your equipment. It involves you suiting up in what you think is safe and getting dragged behind his truck.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:55 PM   #67
GsxrStar
drama patrol
 
GsxrStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: north shore rida
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 3,205


Bike(s):
05 gsxr 750









Send a message via AIM to GsxrStar
shoei all the way
__________________
http://www.motohouston.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26445
GsxrStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:56 PM   #68
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Find what out?

There are facts and figures out there with g force numbers from impact studies from different manufactures.
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:57 PM   #69
del240z
MH's #1 HOBO
 
del240z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Houston, tejas!!!
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 7,740

Experience: 7 years

Bike(s):
None at the moment..... :-(









Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Was trying to be helpful, sorry.
It's coo...just had a mad moment there. I meant in that post is that somethign like that appeals to me, and since they are having some problems with some of their models, especially when I pay over a $100.00 for any helmet, I wanna know I'm at least getting my monies worth.....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
So is refusing to give it up.

If you keep looking in the pantry and finding out its empty, eventually you go to a restaurant.
del240z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 01:57 PM   #70
NOsquid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 111












Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
I seriously can not believe you just said you want more scientific testing. :laughing6
Likewise, I can hardly believe your reasoning. When was the last time you took a science class? Remember the scientific method? Anectodal evidence can reenforce sound scientific tests but not replace or supercede them.

Your crash is not reproducible and proves little. The speed at which you crash does not necessarily mean you bonk your head harder. You can hit your head much harder in a 50mph highside or tumbling than you would in a 100mph lowside. The only way to prove something conclusively in the "real world" would be to have the exact same crash twice, in different helmets. This is not possible.
NOsquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:00 PM   #71
knee_dragger
Senior Member
 
knee_dragger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alief
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 1,917

Experience: 9 years

Bike(s):
crf450









Quote:
Originally Posted by GsxrStar
shoei all the way
Shoei helmets are designed for deformed head structures..
__________________
R.I.P. Roger "Koskesh"
July 25, 1977 - April 22, 2007
R.I.P. Matt "Yankee R6"
December 2, 1980-October 13, 2007
You will be missed.
knee_dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:01 PM   #72
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by knee_dragger
Shoei helmets are designed for deformed head structures..
Guess that is why it fits me so well.lol
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:01 PM   #73
NOsquid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 111












Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
There are facts and figures out there with g force numbers from impact studies from different manufactures.
I know. What is your point? Have you found some to indicate more expensive helmets are better? Would you mind posting a link?

In the DOT test reports I haven't seen such a trend. And it wasn't the trend in the recent Motorcyclist article either.

Anything can transfer low g's, it depends on how you crash. A pillow will if you hit your head slow enough. Some crashes it's hopeless. And you have to determine the amount of g's that will cause the injuries you are trying to prevent too. Mild and critical brain injuries happen at different levels, and it's not really possible to design a helmet to withstand every conceivable impact, you have to prioritize. Mild injury, you'd be better off in a soft helmet. But this same soft helmet might bottom out in a less fortunate situation.
NOsquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:05 PM   #74
jus10
Loading...
 
jus10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,160

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
KX TooNifty









hey witchdoctor...(and anyone who wants to chime in)

Do you know much about fulmer helmets?(i.e. overall quality/comfort vs. price)
I saw one at a shop (dirt cheap price) but don't know much about 'em... may pick one up for grins though. Whatcha think?
jus10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:15 PM   #75
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
I know. What is your point? Have you found some to indicate more expensive helmets are better? Would you mind posting a link?

In the DOT test reports I haven't seen such a trend. And it wasn't the trend in the recent Motorcyclist article either.

Anything can transfer low g's, it depends on how you crash. A pillow will if you hit your head slow enough. Some crashes it's hopeless. And you have to determine the amount of g's that will cause the injuries you are trying to prevent too. Mild and critical brain injuries happen at different levels, and it's not really possible to design a helmet to withstand every conceivable impact, you have to prioritize. Mild injury, you'd be better off in a soft helmet. But this same soft helmet might bottom out in a less fortunate situation.
There is data out there. I deleted all the links I had because this is all a moot issue that comes up every 6 months or so. Do your own research so you can answer your own questions. The main issue of this thread was arai having a failure. guess what all helmets do. What I want in a helmet manufacturer is great quality control and back up their product thru thick and thin. Like you say, there are numerous ways to have a impact. No 2 helmets will fare in the same manner. There are no real world tests for helmets because no 2 mishaps are the same. I buy helmets based on alot of factors. Sure most helmets out there can prevent a head injury. Not all have adequate air ventilation. That is important to me as in i sweat like a hog. If I am too busy wiping sweat out of my eyes to see where i am driving because of no air flow, how is that a quality helmet? if the helmet lifts on me and I have to let lose of the controls to push the helmet back on my head, how is that a good helmet? If rain splashes in to my eyes through a poorly designed sheild system, how is that a good helmet?
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:18 PM   #76
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by jus10
hey witchdoctor...(and anyone who wants to chime in)

Do you know much about fulmer helmets?(i.e. overall quality/comfort vs. price)
I saw one at a shop (dirt cheap price) but don't know much about 'em... may pick one up for grins though. Whatcha think?
My first helmet ever was a fulmer. That has been long age so i couldn't say anything about current models. My advise is like I tell all others. Do your own reasearch and narrow it down to a few companies you feel comfortable with and go and try on every thing you can get your hands on.
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:18 PM   #77
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Likewise, I can hardly believe your reasoning. When was the last time you took a science class? Remember the scientific method? Anectodal evidence can reenforce sound scientific tests but not replace or supercede them.

Your crash is not reproducible and proves little. The speed at which you crash does not necessarily mean you bonk your head harder. You can hit your head much harder in a 50mph highside or tumbling than you would in a 100mph lowside. The only way to prove something conclusively in the "real world" would be to have the exact same crash twice, in different helmets. This is not possible.
Dude seriously, I understand the scietific portion but science in this area is not going to provide the results found with actual crashes. Simply because as you stated most of them are not easily replicated. And a helmet not cracking due to certain impact forces does not mean that your skull will not crack. And other testing on absorbtion does not mean that your helmet that has done so well in a lab is going to save your life when you hit your head just the right way when wrecking. Again, science provides a great standards and certification for helmets but does not provide real world evidence that is acrued from racing. For instance, we can test in a lab all day long and make what seems to be a great helmet but how it performs when I lowside in a turn and the guy behind me runs my head over is what I am intersted in.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:19 PM   #78
witchdoctor575
certified shutterbug
 
witchdoctor575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alvin
Feedback Rating: (11)
Posts: 23,547

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
07 triumph D675(sold)
05 busa LE (sold)
03 rc51 (sold)
99 superhawk (wrecked)
01 shadow 1100 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Dude seriously, I understand the scietific portion but science in this area is not going to provide the results found with actual crashes. Simply because as you stated most of them are not easily replicated. And a helmet not cracking due to certain impact forces does not mean that your skull will not crack. And other testing on absorbtion does not mean that your helmet that has done so well in a lab is going to save your life when you hit your head just the right way when wrecking. Again, science provides a great standards and certification for helmets but does not provide real world evidence that is acrued from racing. For instance, we can test in a lab all day long and make what seems to be a great helmet but how it performs when I lowside in a turn and the guy behind me runs my head over is what I am intersted in.
+1
witchdoctor575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:19 PM   #79
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
There is data out there. I deleted all the links I had because this is all a moot issue that comes up every 6 months or so. Do your own research so you can answer your own questions. The main issue of this thread was arai having a failure. guess what all helmets do. What I want in a helmet manufacturer is great quality control and back up their product thru thick and thin. Like you say, there are numerous ways to have a impact. No 2 helmets will fare in the same manner. There are no real world tests for helmets because no 2 mishaps are the same. I buy helmets based on alot of factors. Sure most helmets out there can prevent a head injury. Not all have adequate air ventilation. That is important to me as in i sweat like a hog. If I am too busy wiping sweat out of my eyes to see where i am driving because of no air flow, how is that a quality helmet? if the helmet lifts on me and I have to let lose of the controls to push the helmet back on my head, how is that a good helmet? If rain splashes in to my eyes through a poorly designed sheild system, how is that a good helmet?
Very good points!
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 02:20 PM   #80
handozizle
Senior Member
 
handozizle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Marcos/Kingwood
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 871


Bike(s):
2008 Ducati 848
2004 GSXR 600-Sold








Send a message via AIM to handozizle
luckily i have a shoei
handozizle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy