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Old 01-04-2007, 12:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Thank You, I was feeling very confused for a moment.
I'm always confused.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:08 PM   #42
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I'm gonna apologize for not using an accurate "quote" in my post and then make a rude comment in regards to simple, frigging reading comprehension.



I should have quoted what I was referring to... but I was responding to
NoSquid's comment "I'm glad your friends are still around, but lots of helmets save lives, and they're mostly not Arais."

It was NOT an attack on your statements/commentary Moody. I was adderssing NoSquids comment in regards to mostly non-aria based helmets saving lives while providing no sort of emperical data. It's a BS opinion in a statement that implies it as fact. As opposed to your statement in which you state your feelings and what it is based on.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric
I'm gonna apologize for not using an accurate "quote" in my post and then make a rude comment in regards to simple, frigging reading comprehension.



I should have quoted what I was referring to... but I was responding to
NoSquid's comment "I'm glad your friends are still around, but lots of helmets save lives, and they're mostly not Arais."

It was NOT an attack on your statements/commentary Moody. I was adderssing NoSquids comment in regards to mostly non-aria based helmets saving lives while providing no sort of emperical data. It's a BS opinion in a statement that implies it as fact. As opposed to your statement in which you state your feelings and what it is based on.
I'm sorry then. It just seems like I have been getting called out alot for simple things lately. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:14 PM   #44
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Np, it's all good Moody. :-)

I'ts kind of the nature of the beast when dealing with messageboards.
I just figure if someone is going to state/claim something like

"but lots of helmets save lives, and they're mostly not Arais."

then they should be providing some sort of supporting data/evidence.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:19 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
You guys need to research on how helmets are tested. Dot and snell test production batches of helmets. If a helmet fails from a certain production run, that run is scrapped and another batch is tested. I guarantee that every manufacturer has batches that fail every now and then. Kinda like cars. they are all made the same but every 1 in 100 is a complete lemon. Just how it is. That doesn't mean that every one of that model produced is subject to that same failure.
Actually no, batch testing is a European thing, and while some people will have you believe that entire runs of helmets are scrapped if they find an error (to make you feel better about buying their helmets) I am very skeptical. I emailed BSI and they pretty much told me that was bullshit. You can submit a batch for retesting. I would expect the same from ECE.

DOT is done on the honor system. There is no pretesting, the manufacturer is responsible for making a helmet that passes the test. The random compliance tests are done after the fact with helmets bought off the shelf. When there is a problem, the manufacturer is notified, they talk about what needs to be done etc.. Recalls are rare.

Snell also does no batch testing, they do random sample testing. Also off the shelf, after the fact. They don't publish results like DOT has. They do actually have pretesting though, before the helmet is released they test a few models they get from the manufacturer.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:23 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Actually no, batch testing is a European thing, and while some people will have you believe that entire runs of helmets are scrapped if they find an error (to make you feel better about buying their helmets) I am very skeptical. I emailed BSI and they pretty much told me that was bullshit. You can submit a batch for retesting. I would expect the same from ECE.

DOT is done on the honor system. There is no pretesting, the manufacturer is responsible for making a helmet that passes the test. The random compliance tests are done after the fact with helmets bought off the shelf. When there is a problem, the manufacturer is notified, they talk about what needs to be done etc.. Recalls are rare.

Snell also does no batch testing, they do random sample testing. Also off the shelf, after the fact. They don't publish results like DOT has. They do actually have pretesting though, before the helmet is released they test a few models they get from the manufacturer.
I usually stick with models that have been proven on the street and track. Just my opinion though.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:27 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Actually no, batch testing is a European thing, and while some people will have you believe that entire runs of helmets are scrapped if they find an error (to make you feel better about buying their helmets) I am very skeptical. I emailed BSI and they pretty much told me that was bullshit. You can submit a batch for retesting. I would expect the same from ECE.

DOT is done on the honor system. There is no pretesting, the manufacturer is responsible for making a helmet that passes the test. The random compliance tests are done after the fact with helmets bought off the shelf. When there is a problem, the manufacturer is notified, they talk about what needs to be done etc.. Recalls are rare.

Snell also does no batch testing, they do random sample testing. Also off the shelf, after the fact. They don't publish results like DOT has. They do actually have pretesting though, before the helmet is released they test a few models they get from the manufacturer.
Well I guess i would be wrong then. But consider this. While dot doesn't require batch pulling, it does require a new helmet to pass the testing BEFORE it is issued a dot rating. So the profile helmet was new for 2006. If it failed the dot test before it was realesed, then it posed no harm to the general public. All new products need to have the bugs worked out prior to release.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:30 PM   #48
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As far as the scorpion helmets go, I'm not saying they are bad. I just said that there are some shops out there in the houston area that wont sell them or the parts I need for them. There was a rumor about a recall on some of their models and now it's hard to find what I need for them. I like the comfort and fit and the "anti-fog" system they have implemented for it. Cant tell you how many times I've worn a HJC, KBC or a SHOEI and had it fog up on me. I jsut wonder how the scorpion line will fair come the next couple of months? I've never worn an Arai, but wouldnt mind trying one out. But, when I go to buy a helmet I first and foremost worry about SAFETY. Then, comfort, fit, etc. etc.
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So is refusing to give it up.

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Old 01-04-2007, 01:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric
Np, it's all good Moody. :-)

I'ts kind of the nature of the beast when dealing with messageboards.
I just figure if someone is going to state/claim something like

"but lots of helmets save lives, and they're mostly not Arais."

then they should be providing some sort of supporting data/evidence.
You're right, it's speculation. My apologies, I'm the first to prefer something more scientific.

But definitely it's an educated guess. I doubt that Arai make up more than 10% of helmets, if that. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Arai didn't save lives, only that there are lots and lots of helmets out there and they all save lives. The guy I was responding doesn't want to read the document and doesn't care what it says because he has seen Arai save his friends. I would contend that this is not a reasonable approach.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:35 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575
Well I guess i would be wrong then. But consider this. While dot doesn't require batch pulling, it does require a new helmet to pass the testing BEFORE it is issued a dot rating. So the profile helmet was new for 2006. If it failed the dot test before it was realesed, then it posed no harm to the general public. All new products need to have the bugs worked out prior to release.
No, there is no prerelease testing with DOT, only random compliance checks after production has begun. Snell does require prerelease testing.

The Profile was not new for 2006, I own a 2005 model. Production helmets were bought off the shelf and tested.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:35 PM   #51
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Ya'll want to know about helmet recalls? Here is a link. BTW kbc had a helmet recalled. Cheaper is better right?
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:37 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del
As far as the scorpion helmets go, I'm not saying they are bad. I just said that there are some shops out there in the houston area that wont sell them or the parts I need for them. There was a rumor about a recall on some of their models and now it's hard to find what I need for them. I like the comfort and fit and the "anti-fog" system they have implemented for it. Cant tell you how many times I've worn a HJC, KBC or a SHOEI and had it fog up on me. I jsut wonder how the scorpion line will fair come the next couple of months? I've never worn an Arai, but wouldnt mind trying one out. But, when I go to buy a helmet I first and foremost worry about SAFETY. Then, comfort, fit, etc. etc.
The anti-fog is a gimmick dude, why would you expect any less from a company with a cartoon hottie in their ads? It works, sure, but you can buy your own anti-fog treatment (Cat ), a Fog City shield, or a breath guard and make any helmet not fog.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:38 PM   #53
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It's a solid point in that regards NoS...

As witch stated, there's no real 'data' that suggests any particular brand/model over another in regards to actual 'street' performance.
So I'd have to say his is reasonably as valid a selection method
as anyone elses. It comes down to individual choice around
self imposed 'acceptable' risk and assessment.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
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Ya'll want to know about helmet recalls? Here is a link. BTW kbc had a helmet recalled. Cheaper is better right?
Yes the TK9 I believe, it had problems in DOT testing initially and eventually I guess this prompted the recall, after they researched it further. But still recalls are rare.

HJC also had a recall for a rebranded Z1R helmet that they manufactured.

Price isn't really a determining factor.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:43 PM   #55
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I am not reading the document because I am not qualified to decipher it and give out recommendations based on it. All I was saying is I have seen Aria perform well under extreme conditions and save the lives of those in in that condition. I have seen and personaly test Shoei under some pretty extreme conditions. I am still here for now. The real thing is that we have a thread saying "Ban Aria" when I have yet to hear any real evidence of why other then this single test. I am not saying buy an Aria. In fact my next track helmet will be a Suomy and that comes from making a decision based on how well they perform for others on the track. And, I try to get that information from a reputable source.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
Yes the TK9 I believe, it had problems in DOT testing initially and eventually I guess this prompted the recall, after they researched it further. But still recalls are rare.

HJC also had a recall for a rebranded Z1R helmet that they manufactured.

Price isn't really a determining factor.

No price isn't, but there are no higher end helmets on the recall list. fulmer, hci, hjc, vemar and zamp all had helmets on the list. hmmmm...
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
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I usually stick with models that have been proven on the street and track. Just my opinion though.
That really doesn't work, you need scientific tests.

I've seen people who have fallen off of bikes wearing next to nothing and come out fine. Their Tshirts and flip flops were "proven" but I'd rather put my trust in something more precise.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
That really doesn't work, you need scientific tests.

I've seen people who have fallen off of bikes wearing next to nothing and come out fine. Their Tshirts and flip flops were "proven" but I'd rather put my trust in something more precise.
Do your homework then. There is loads of info out there on the web. It took me 2 weeks of studying to find that out.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:49 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOsquid
The anti-fog is a gimmick dude, why would you expect any less from a company with a cartoon hottie in their ads? It works, sure, but you can buy your own anti-fog treatment (Cat ), a Fog City shield, or a breath guard and make any helmet not fog.


Was just sayin....dont be an a$$hat.......
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So is refusing to give it up.

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Old 01-04-2007, 01:49 PM   #60
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We need to come up with a 'Bill Joe ' helmet testing system... :-)

Independent study, get a grant and find various ways to tort...erm, test helmets...
(Here, put this on and we're gonna hit you with this here 4x4...)...
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