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Old 05-08-2012, 07:59 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
got it. I need to, invidually, take 34 other riders in my group out to dinner and a movie prior to attempting a pass.
Good way to try and discredit his argument that you should follow the person to understand what kind of rider they are for a few extra minutes before attempting a pass on the inside of a turn...

Good job. You guys crack me up.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:12 AM   #102
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Not a page ago you quoted this guy and said the what is under it to counter his example. Said it was a "play on emotions" though I really didn't see that, it was just a very simple and straight example on why rules are rules and who is at fault when they are broken...but whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokati View Post
I guess it would be the child's fault if he was playing hop scotch on the sidewalk and tumbled into his yard only to get run over my a car who was cutting through the yard too... because rules and laws are clearly optional.
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Originally Posted by zerobounds View Post
Interesting choice, making the child the POV rider but it doesn't really work since the yard isn't a place either of them are intending to inhabit (unlike the track/turn), neither have any reason whatsoever to be there and they're not playing the same game.
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Interesting indeed. This argument was more a play at emotions than a logical example.
So, you say that is not a "logical example". You mean to tell me yours is? His point was very valid..

Or you are purposely going so far off the map to try and somehow seem right? Come on.
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
got it. I need to, invidually, take 34 other riders in my group out to dinner and a movie prior to attempting a pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobounds View Post
And a sincere apology letter professionally written in calligraphy for any startling you may have caused them.
And you, I don't even know what to say to you, call me when you get back from Uranus.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:13 AM   #103
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racing and track days are very different in my mind. On trackdays there is no prize because it is not a contest... I also keep in mind that there are different expectations at different levels and different riders have different mind sets... when safety is the issue, it is often not my mind set I am concerned about, it is the mindset of the "other" rider and I have to learn to expect the other rider to ride by his mindset and expectations...if that means I pit out and sit out a minute or two to reduce congestion or break up a pack, then that is what I do... to push a risky situation on a trackday makes no sense to me. I am not at the level some of you guys are, so down in my level when passing is permitted and I get behind some one slower than I am, i do follow them a lap or two and see how they handle corners entering and leaving and think about where passing them will be the safest.. so in a sense I spend time planning my passes, does that make me slower or faster, to tell the truth I am not concerned about it, I figure in the long run it makes me a better rider, teaching me to use my head as well as the throttle.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:16 AM   #104
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Quote:
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racing and track days are very different in my mind. On trackdays there is no prize because it is not a contest... I also keep in mind that there are different expectations at different levels and different riders have different mind sets... when safety is the issue, it is often not my mind set I am concerned about, it is the mindset of the "other" rider and I have to learn to expect the other rider to ride by his mindset and expectations...if that means I pit out and sit out a minute or two to reduce congestion or break up a pack, then that is what I do... to push a risky situation on a trackday makes no sense to me. I am not at the level some of you guys are, so down in my level when passing is permitted and I get behind some one slower than I am, i do follow them a lap or two and see how they handle corners entering and leaving and think about where passing them will be the safest.. so in a sense I spend time planning my passes, does that make me slower or faster, to tell the truth I am not concerned about it, I figure in the long run it makes me a better rider, teaching me to use my head as well as the throttle.
Wait... more throttle and less brake doesn't make you a better rider?
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:28 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRider View Post
So, you say that is not a "logical example". You mean to tell me yours is? His point was very valid..

Or you are purposely going so far off the map to try and somehow seem right? Come on.
No, I'm just being an .
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:35 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRider View Post
Good way to try and discredit his argument that you should follow the person to understand what kind of rider they are for a few extra minutes before attempting a pass on the inside of a turn...

Good job. You guys crack me up.
Look. Certain orgs have now set laptime limits to graduate to the highest group. If I have to follow every single rider for half a lap to "understand them" just to pass.........................I'm simply never going to be able to graduate. AND that presumes that a rider is going to do the same thing consistently which is actually one of the biggest concerns with passing in intermediate: people who take a high line in one turn might take a low line in the next, and then the next lap around might do it just the opposite. Or, and this one is always fun, they'll take the "race line" and use the entire width of the track for every turn because that's what they're "supposed" to do even though their pace is such that they only need half the width. They actually have to steer the bike towards the outside of the track instead of letting the throttle push the bike.

I'd actually like to see how far some of the yellow plate guys drop of their normal pace if they were forced to ride in intermediate and follow the letter of intermediate's passing rules.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:49 AM   #107
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did everyone forget that trackdays are supposed to be fun? Dont take all the fun out, guys.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #108
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did everyone forget that trackdays are supposed to be fun? Dont take all the fun out, guys.
Serious business, yo.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:20 AM   #109
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Quote:
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No, I'm just being an .
obviously...
Quote:
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did everyone forget that trackdays are supposed to be fun? Dont take all the fun out, guys.
Cereal...
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:49 AM   #110
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I understand PoPo's concerns, they are just different than mine... I am not concerned about graduating from one group to another...or what times I am riding...
I am not concerned about how many trackdays I spend in any given group,or what anybody thinks of my riding skills. I am about enjoying my trackday at my pace and doing it as safely as I can...if I were concerned about graduating to the next level or meeting a certain time to take an advanced riding class, I might feel differently about some things.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:18 AM   #111
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #112
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The easiest way to deal with an erratic rider is what Leo (HotChknStrips) said earlier, just pit in and let the rider go or group that is holding you up. You have all freaking day at the track. As everyone knows, the only trophy you win is to go home with you and your bike in one piece. Maybe its because I'm older but I've already done the crazy stupid stuff when I was in my 20s like jumping out of planes for uncle sam and now I'm still doing somewhat dangerous stuff on the track but I'm not trying to live out my MotoGP fantasy and unfortunately, there are some riders who just dont have any patience. There is also EGO involved and lots of it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:24 AM   #113
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:49 AM   #114
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:52 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Look. Certain orgs have now set laptime limits to graduate to the highest group. If I have to follow every single rider for half a lap to "understand them" just to pass.........................I'm simply never going to be able to graduate.
I do not think you are interpreting those limits correctly, IMO.

If an organization has come to a point to be forced to set lap time limits, it's not just to help people know when to move up but to try to prevent certain people from moving up. There's guys out there who like to brag about their "racing" skills and are trying to move up as fast as possible, without having acquired all the knowledge they need to have acquired in the previous level, just to tell their friends "I am faster than you", "I drag knees all the time", which is just stupid.

Whether you need to "graduate" or not, as you put it, should not be determined only by your lap time. If an organization sets e.g. a minimum 1:20 for intermediate for GSS, someone with inconsistent lines, wrong body position and poor passing skills might be able to hit that mark a couple of times. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE/SHE'S READY.

If you feel you're consistent on your lines, your body position is good and it seems like you're one of the fastest in the group and you are unsure if its time to move up, you can always ask a control rider for some feedback instead of just checking your lap times.

Moving up should always mean there's nothing more left for you to learn in the group you are riding at, and be ready to start a beginner on the next...

Thats just my opinion...
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #116
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And btw, I'm not saying that knowing average lap times for a group and comparing to yours doesn't help, I'm just saying it's not the only thing one needs to consider...
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:48 PM   #117
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I get what you're saying, but the limits DO exist and still need to be met. If (using your GSS example) you run 1:30s, and have good clean lines and body position, they're still not going to let you bump up because you're a danger, via closing speed, to the riders in the next fastest group.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:40 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Look. Certain orgs have now set laptime limits to graduate to the highest group. If I have to follow every single rider for half a lap to "understand them" just to pass.........................I'm simply never going to be able to graduate. .....................I'd actually like to see how far some of the yellow plate guys drop of their normal pace if they were forced to ride in intermediate and follow the letter of intermediate's passing rules .
You got to be kidding me right?
You openly admit disregard for track rules, and organizations still let you register with them?
Please enter the roll polls so I do not register for any events you register. My safety is above track days.

I have respect for every rider on the track (including you....which i do not know )and I understand that the rules are for my safety and that of others and do my best to follow them so no one is in harms way. I expect the same understanding from other riders. If the same understanding is not shared i"ll be happy to step out and find other organizations that implement them better.
I care for my safety and my ability to go to work on Monday.
I worked hard to buy my toys and don't want an dictating their future..... i can do that on my own.
My family depends on me and does not want to see me hurt because of an that has something to prove.
I do not need cowboys with something to prove on the track and in my sessions.
I know that good organizations with good control riders and corner workers will immediately recognize a faster/consistent person and bump them up.
If there are significantly slower riders I talk to the organization to assign them someone to help them out (or bump them down) and I accept that they are on a learning curve. I do not break the rules because of it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaXoS View Post
You got to be kidding me right?
You openly admit disregard for track rules, and organizations still let you register with them?
Please enter the roll polls so I do not register for any events you register. My safety is above track days.

I have respect for every rider on the track (including you....which i do not know )and I understand that the rules are for my safety and that of others and do my best to follow them so no one is in harms way. I expect the same understanding from other riders. If the same understanding is not shared i"ll be happy to step out and find other organizations that implement them better.
I care for my safety and my ability to go to work on Monday.
I worked hard to buy my toys and don't want an dictating their future..... i can do that on my own.
My family depends on me and does not want to see me hurt because of an that has something to prove.
I do not need cowboys with something to prove on the track and in my sessions.
I know that good organizations with good control riders and corner workers will immediately recognize a faster/consistent person and bump them up.
If there are significantly slower riders I talk to the organization to assign them someone to help them out (or bump them down) and I accept that they are on a learning curve. I do not break the rules because of it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:44 PM   #120
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Quote:
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You got to be kidding me right?
You openly admit disregard for track rules, and organizations still let you register with them?
Please enter the roll polls so I do not register for any events you register. My safety is above track days.

I have respect for every rider on the track (including you....which i do not know )and I understand that the rules are for my safety and that of others and do my best to follow them so no one is in harms way. I expect the same understanding from other riders. If the same understanding is not shared i"ll be happy to step out and find other organizations that implement them better.
I care for my safety and my ability to go to work on Monday.
I worked hard to buy my toys and don't want an dictating their future..... i can do that on my own.
My family depends on me and does not want to see me hurt because of an that has something to prove.
I do not need cowboys with something to prove on the track and in my sessions.
I know that good organizations with good control riders and corner workers will immediately recognize a faster/consistent person and bump them up.
If there are significantly slower riders I talk to the organization to assign them someone to help them out (or bump them down) and I accept that they are on a learning curve. I do not break the rules because of it.
check mate?
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