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Old 01-03-2007, 02:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniro187
hmmm maybe if we found osama and went after all these illegals ****s running around in this coutnry maybe then I'd feel safer. saddam had to do with our safety. how about that for your cookie.
+a billion, too bad your logic is seemingly a rarity these days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Very good point. Some of them definitely enjoy our presence. Others tolerate it in hopes of a better change but, the topic was is the general situation better over there. At this point I doubt it and maybe it will be in the end and maybe it won't. It is hard for me to decide this because I think I lack the knowledge of the area in general. Although, I have tried since the beginning to get a broad view of the situation from different perspectives. I mean honestly, I am an American and could careless if we were able to convert the entire planet to the United States of Earth. That would possibly be the greatest thing ever but, at the same time our values have never been to divide and concur. Which for some reason I feel is what has happened in Iraq.
+tOo billion, you are a smart fella...

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Originally Posted by Moody
...convert the entire planet to the United States of Earth
This mindset led to the fall of Rome...
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:00 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
I think it would be interesting to do a cost comparison between the current strategy and what it would have costs to just blow the doors off the place with all of our advance military weapons and then fund the country to rebuild. (Similar to Japan)
Wow. Kill 100s of thousand of innocent civilians to stop terrorism. Anything ironic about that?
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:03 PM   #43
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So is refusing to give it up.

If you keep looking in the pantry and finding out its empty, eventually you go to a restaurant.
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
Very good point. Some of them definitely enjoy our presence. Others tolerate it in hopes of a better change but, the topic was is the general situation better over there.
"In recent weeks, two important scientific polls of Iraqi opinion have been published, and neither offered much solace for those who support staying the course. A Gallup poll conducted mostly in late March-- before the recent sieges of Fallujah and Najaf-- showed that "a solid majority support an immediate military pullout." (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...l-cover_x.htm). Fifty-seven percent said the coalition should "leave immediately" rather than "stay longer" (36 percent)."

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1833
from 2004, but still relevant i think.
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:08 PM   #45
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Scary job I would think........polling Iraqi's

I would bet if you polled the US prison population a majority would abolish prisons:eh:
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:09 PM   #46
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Here's a quick link to a poll taken in 2004:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphic...poll/flash.htm
Dec 2006:
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Not necessarily absolute, but I think they serve as good indicators as to the overall feel that Iraqis carry toward the US and this war...
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BrutusTx
Scary job I would think........polling Iraqi's

I would bet if you polled the US prison population a majority would abolish prisons:eh:
Are you saying Iraq is comparable to a prison?
Because I think some people would agree
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:12 PM   #48
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I would think that if you have questions as to how a people actually feel about something, typically, the people are the best source of that information...:dontknow:
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:14 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Are you saying Iraq is comparable to a prison?
Because I think some people would agree
I would probably think that if I lived there...........with all the stuff going on I would suspect the majority would feel like if we left things would relax but, like a prison, what would happen if we/the guards did say f-it and went home?
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutusTx
...what would happen if we/the guards did say f-it and went home?
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 03:35 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains02
Wow. Kill 100s of thousand of innocent civilians to stop terrorism. Anything ironic about that?
Ok, I stated I did not agree with this war initially but, once we release the war machine let them do the job they are trained and paid for. That is all I am saying. Nobody ever said war was a nice thing and that innocent people do not die and I of course would not be saying that I know how an operation of this nature should occur. That is why we have all those fancy suited people in the Pentagon for but, what we are doing now is disgusting in my opinion and I just think it would be interesting to see a dollar for dollar comparison. That is what this is all about anyways.... is it not?

So, when they land on our shores do you want everyone to pick up their pea shooters and go one for one or would you like the war machine to do its job at that time? Innocent lives will be lost but guest what.... they are going to already be lost anyways. Some choices in life are difficult are they not?

It is easy for all of us to be arm chair generals and say lets blow everything to pieces or lets be compasionate and try to preserve innocent lives but, the real deal is, it is a war now and do we want Americans to die or do we want some one else to fall instead? I of course do not have all the answers and at the end of the day it does not affect me either way. I am not in the armed forces, I am not even elligible anymore and it will probably never affect my life to a degree that I will notice it.

So, again I was simply curious about a cost comparison because that certainly affects you, me and potentialy those Americans who our next to come. It is just an idea man.
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Last edited by Moody; 01-03-2007 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:20 PM   #52
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"There is no longer a way out of our present situation except by forging a road toward our objective, violently and by force, over a sea of blood and under a horizon blazing with fire." -Gamal Abdel Nasser (Kinda relevant in this case, IMO anyway)

"In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment or a company entire than to destroy them." - Sun Tzu (Hence why we should have left the Iraqi Army intact rather than trying to create one anew)
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:23 PM   #53
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One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. - Sun Tzu

This was my initial train of thought about this whole war.
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:26 PM   #54
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He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns. - Sun Tzu

Current thought...
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:27 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. - Sun Tzu

This was my initial train of thought about this whole war.
Nice! This is the intrinsic basis behind my logic in the beginning as well...
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:32 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody
He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns. - Sun Tzu

Current thought...
notice it said "victory...not lengthy campaigns"

why?

"When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength." - Sun Tzu
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris24
ROPE

just realized that thing only has like 9 loops on it.. TX law still says your gotta use 13..
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:36 PM   #58
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They have arrested the guy who took the video.
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:36 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton9698
just realized that thing only has like 9 loops on it.. TX law still says your gotta use 13..
Helluvan observation...
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:38 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Here's a quick link to a poll taken in 2004:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphic...poll/flash.htm
Dec 2006:
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Not necessarily absolute, but I think they serve as good indicators as to the overall feel that Iraqis carry toward the US and this war...
from what i gather they dont like that we went over there and they hate bush.. but they are glad to have saddam gone... :confused1

Idiots... thats why i got outa the army, so i never have to deal with them again.
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