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Old 04-18-2012, 10:29 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Removing the rider is a rider input. Well.....technically an output I guess.
yep, without that fat of a counterweight.. the bike goes where it wants to.. which is straight.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
yep, without that fat of a counterweight.. the bike goes where it wants to.. which is straight.
You're thinking of the physics all wrong. I'm sure this discussion has been had a million times, but CSS's "No BS" (no body steer) bike is pretty conclusive evidence that the rider is not a counterweight that holds the bike in the turn. The bike holds itself in the turn.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:49 AM   #63
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The No BS bike proves that countersteering is done thru the bars, not with body weight.

Doesn't really prove what happens in a turn other than bar input is still much more effective than than body inputs..

That being said, basic physics tell you the bike in a turn wants to stand up at anything over walking speed, if left to it's own devices.

Try getting a friction lock on the throttle, set it for your maintenance throttle, then head into a turn and take both hands off the bars.. let me know if it continues to carve that nice line.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:59 AM   #64
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My first trackday is coming up so I'll be far away from draggin my knee but I have stock rearsets and I am concerned about my pegs and foot position in corners? I get pretty close on the street sometimes.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #65
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Riding minis teaches a lot about physics. I rarely use my knee on the big bike, but on the mini it's a must do.

I use my knee mini racing all the time. It creates additional drag on the ground that helps rotate the bike towards the turn in the event the front tire loses traction before the rear approaching the apex of the turn.

I've picked a few long drawn out lowsides on a big bike by transferring weight to my knee. At TWS (Texas World Speedway), at 90 MPH, if I didn't have the knee down, I would have gone down.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:02 AM   #66
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:05 AM   #67
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You will be fine Ben! Might drag some peg but Chris and I will give you some tips with your foot position.

You need to be concerned with me sleeping naked in the same hotel room as you.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:05 AM   #68
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Quote:
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My first trackday is coming up so I'll be far away from draggin my knee but I have stock rearsets and I am concerned about my pegs and foot position in corners? I get pretty close on the street sometimes.
the footing position will feel weird at first since all we do is street but you'll do good have fun
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:10 AM   #69
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I have stock pegs and have no problems yet.. Would rather use vortex but I has no money to get new ones. lol
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:16 AM   #70
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Yeah but Bens pegs are lower than most, hes on a VFR lol
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:17 AM   #71
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I've seen a nice bike trashed because the pegs were not hinged, just sayin'
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:19 AM   #72
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Take the curb feelers off; heavy bikes tend to stick them in

Be prepared to hang off more and you WILL be getting a good workout muscling the bike around the track.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:20 AM   #73
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I have stock pegs and have no problems yet.. Would rather use vortex but I has no money to get new ones. lol
Vortex pegs are nice until you've chewed a hole in the bottom of your $500 boots. Then they're not so nice.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:22 AM   #74
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Quote:
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Take the curb feelers off; heavy bikes tend to stick them in
I'd much rather have the peg spurs slide than the pegs dig in, but that's me, plus they're cheap to replace
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:23 AM   #75
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:24 AM   #76
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Yeah, but that is more ground clearance you are giving up, plus like I said..

My experience on heavier bikes those little feelers don't slide so much as dig and grab. I bent one over and kicked my foot off a peg on my old Bandit.. not a fun experience.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:24 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
That being said, basic physics tell you the bike in a turn wants to stand up at anything over walking speed, if left to it's own devices.
There's nothing basic about the physics of motorcycles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Try getting a friction lock on the throttle, set it for your maintenance throttle, then head into a turn and take both hands off the bars.. let me know if it continues to carve that nice line.
saw a video of it once. Can't seem to find it. The bike continued in the same arc.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:28 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Yeah, but that is more ground clearance you are giving up, plus like I said..

My experience on heavier bikes those little feelers don't slide so much as dig and grab. I bent one over and kicked my foot off a peg on my old Bandit.. not a fun experience.
They're only good on RaceReady bikes , plus they tell me to "hang off more, you lazy "
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:31 AM   #79
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Centrifugal force on any object traveling in an arc or circle acts in the same direction.. out.

If it didn't, you wouldn't even have to lean the bike to counteract it.. just turn that wheel.

Fact: for a given radius, you have to lean more as speed is increased.. even tho you are still carving the same arc and line (body in the same spot)..

why is that?

Because as speed increases, so do the centrifugal forces trying to stand the bike up.

The only way to counteract that is move more weight in and lower...

Regardless of the affect the change in tire radius and steering angles etc etc, the force you are countering is the one trying to stand the bike up.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:38 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Centrifugal force on any object traveling in an arc or circle acts in the same direction.. out.

If it didn't, you wouldn't even have to lean the bike to counteract it.. just turn that wheel.

Fact: for a given radius, you have to lean more as speed is increased.. even tho you are still carving the same arc and line (body in the same spot)..

why is that?

Because as speed increases, so do the centrifugal forces trying to stand the bike up.

The only way to counteract that is move more weight in and lower...

Regardless of the affect the change in tire radius and steering angles etc etc, the force you are countering is the one trying to stand the bike up.
I too don't think a bike will maintain an arc without rider input, however, I do know that airplanes maintain a bank until a counterforce is applied.
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