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Old 04-13-2012, 12:07 PM   #21
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i cant find vegetable oil pump at any of gas station.....
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #22
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I blame the confusion on the names for octane ratings (regular, plus, premium)
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dos Equis View Post
If the User's manual specify 89 or higher what's the risk of using 87? Also when talking about "pinging" or "knocking", what exactly mean with that term? the backfiring?
Pinging and knocking---is the sound you hear when the 2 explosions come together. 1st explosion is the preignition and the second is the one set off by the sparkplug.

This sound, is the shockwave that is created by the two explosions coming together. It is very harmful to your engines and WILL blow out a head gasket if it continues for very long. I've learned this the hard way. Good thing my Durango was still under warranty.

Also in the old days before all of the electronics higher compression engines had to run higher octane fuel.

On a different note, In the early 90's I worked in the Exxon Baytown refinery. We had a hot job in close proximity to an explosive area of the labratory. So we got to be very well aquainted with some of the lab techs. Once I got into a conversation with one about the different grades of fuels. His reply to me was that he wouldn't even use 87 octane fuel to pour on the ants in his yard. He said they would mix anything and everything they could to get the proper (87)octane rating and sell the out of it.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #24
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I heard when you go to dyno tune your bike, you want to run 89.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #25
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This topic has been discussed more than Jesus
Yep and were still discussing both of them.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:19 PM   #26
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Some do, but a knock sensor just retards the timing enough to prevent pre-ignition, which will hurt performance and economy.
Not necesarily, if it's keeping the explosion in the proper timing of the piston reaching TDC then how does it hurt. What hurts is when it doesn't change the timing to accomodate the different fuel.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:20 PM   #27
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If the User's manual specify 89 or higher what's the risk of using 87? Also when talking about "pinging" or "knocking", what exactly mean with that term? the backfiring?
Not backfiring. It's a knock/rattle coming from the engine. Running a lower octane gasoline than your engine is rated for increases the likelihood of knock (pre-ignition) which can damage the engine.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:37 PM   #28
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Not necesarily, if it's keeping the explosion in the proper timing of the piston reaching TDC then how does it hurt. What hurts is when it doesn't change the timing to accomodate the different fuel.
It doesn't. Knock sensors don't care about TDC...they only worry about the pre-ignition. When the sensor sends the signal to the ECM to the timing, the spark comes later in the cycle. Maximum combustion pressure occurs after TDC. If the spark occurs too late, the piston is too far down the cylinder to create maximum pressure. Without max combustion pressure, you get decreased power, and with decreased power, it takes more fuel to do the same job.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #29
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It's not about burning slower or faster. It is about resistance to compression before spontaneously igniting.

In a gasoline engine, you want the spark plug to ignite the fuel air mixture. In a high compression engine, a low octane gas may spontaneously ignite prematurely before the piston has moved into position where the spark plug would ignite the mixture. This is called "knock" and is harmful for your engine.

If your engine is designed to use a certain grade gasoline then putting higher grade is a waste of money and putting in a lower grade could be harmful. Most cars these days have knock sensors so you can run on a lower octane gas and just lose power. But I don't know if motorcycles do.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:02 PM   #30
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I heard when you go to dyno tune your bike, you want to run 89.
Shiitttt. 87
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:09 PM   #31
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heres the deal- when you fill up at most stations there will still be a good deal of gasoline in the line of the previous gasoline used to fill... most folks use 87 so if you fill up a 4 gallon bike with 89 oct a not insignificant quantity of fuel you will be paying extra for is just standard 87 oct material ... octane is all about knocking ....so if you run 87 and it doesnt knock good for you if it does knock move to 89 its that simple ... my car calls for 89 and i run 87 .... it has only knocked once and i dont thnik that justifies the added price... the big question is how to avoid ethanol ... would spend better time/effort looking for stations that dont blend as much ethanol ... i know a couple of valero stations that dont splash as much so u get a more pure blend of gasoline
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:11 PM   #32
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BTW most motorcycles dont have the knock sensors that cars do ... so I run 89 in my bike bc my bike calls for it
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dos Equis View Post
If the User's manual specify 89 or higher what's the risk of using 87? Also when talking about "pinging" or "knocking", what exactly mean with that term? the backfiring?
Knocking/pinging is essentially little explosions in cylinder. This is bad. When you hear about people cracking rings or putting holes in pistons, its becaues of very bad knocking and pinging. You'd have to hear a motor knock to know what it sounds like, but its not backfiring. What people commonly call backfiring is actually gas burning in the exhaust instead of the engine. Totally different process, and not caused by octane.

If your bike calls for 89 or higher, the risk of 87 is...well it depends. I'd just run 89 and be done with it. If you were comfortable with the sound of detonation you could try 87 to see if it was happening, but why bother? And if you're playing that game, you might NOT be able to play it all year: a motor that runs great on 87 when cold MIGHT ping in our nasty summers. Air cooled motors being more prone.

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Originally Posted by GBR View Post
If your motorcycle requires 89 or higher, run 93 octane. I have a friend who works at Valero and says since very few people run 89, it is often not nearly as "fresh" as the more common grade octanes.
Most of the gas stations I know of don't actually carry 89. They just mix 87 and 93 on the fly. I'd take your friend's word with a grain of salt.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:13 PM   #34
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Not sure if it has been mentioned yet , but the stated rating is a min. requirement and not actual.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #35
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heres the deal- when you fill up at most stations there will still be a good deal of gasoline in the line of the previous gasoline used to fill... most folks use 87 so if you fill up a 4 gallon bike with 89 oct a not insignificant quantity of fuel you will be paying extra for is just standard 87 oct material ... octane is all about knocking ....so if you run 87 and it doesnt knock good for you if it does knock move to 89 its that simple ... my car calls for 89 and i run 87 .... it has only knocked once and i dont thnik that justifies the added price... the big question is how to avoid ethanol ... would spend better time/effort looking for stations that dont blend as much ethanol ... i know a couple of valero stations that dont splash as much so u get a more pure blend of gasoline
I find this hard to believe since Valero is one of the largest...if not THE largest...producer of ethanol in the US.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese View Post
On a different note, In the early 90's I worked in the Exxon Baytown refinery. We had a hot job in close proximity to an explosive area of the labratory. So we got to be very well aquainted with some of the lab techs. Once I got into a conversation with one about the different grades of fuels. His reply to me was that he wouldn't even use 87 octane fuel to pour on the ants in his yard. He said they would mix anything and everything they could to get the proper (87)octane rating and sell the out of it.
I'd take this info with a grain of salt as well. That's EXTREMELY vague, and doesn't say that what they're mixing is necessarily bad. Especially coming from a tech and not a chemist.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:17 PM   #37
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I find this hard to believe since Valero is one of the largest...if not THE largest...producer of ethanol in the US.
yea I thot it was odd too ... but my mileage is wayyy better when i fill up at this one valero....

ethanol splashing is not an exact science some places toss in too little others toss in just enough and most toss is too much
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:18 PM   #38
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Ok, so bottom line...stay away from crappy stations and don't waste money on the higher octane. Well at least for my bikes. I have a tune on my Mustang so I have to stick to the 93 for it.

This has been very educational.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:19 PM   #39
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I find this hard to believe since Valero is one of the largest...if not THE largest...producer of ethanol in the US.
I get less MPG on Valero gas. I have tracked my mileage extensively to come to this conclusion. They are only slightly ahead of Murphy. That leads me to assume their ethanol content is the reason.
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:20 PM   #40
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Ok, so bottom line...stay away from crappy stations and don't waste money on the higher octane. Well at least for my bikes. I have a tune on my Mustang so I have to stick to the 93 for it.

This has been very educational.
Go 87. If you notice any decrease in performance ( you shouldnt) than return to the higher rated gas. Its a one tank commitment. Your not stuck with it for life.
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