MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 03-30-2012, 11:22 AM   #1
sql-lover
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 19

Experience: 4 years

Bike(s):
Yamaha fz6r
2010 Ninja 250 (sold)
2008 Ninja 250 (sold)







Question Ducati's Desmodromic valve control

So, I'm in the market for a new bike (upgrading my Yamaha fz6r). I'm between Ducati 696 and Triumph Street Triple.

I know they are a little bit different, but one of the things that I want to understand, before final purchase or decision, is Ducati's Desmodromic valve control system. Lot of people are recommending me the Street Triple instead, just because that.

I'm not a mechanic, but I understand basic concepts, not a new rider either!

What's Ducati's Desmodromic valve control and why can be bad or too expensive?

Thanks,

PS: please do not quote or redirect me to Ducati's website ... ;-)

Last edited by sql-lover; 03-30-2012 at 11:27 AM.
sql-lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air cooled two valve Ducati? Cursed Bike. General Discussion (Moto Related) 6 05-24-2015 10:25 PM
Ducati Valve adj DIY m27 How To's and Q & A's 1 05-08-2007 09:36 PM
Advertisement
Old 03-30-2012, 11:39 AM   #2
dontbap()ssy
Senior Member
 
dontbap()ssy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingwood
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 591

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
04 R6 (sold)
04 R1 (donated to the track gods)
08 MV Agusta F4 312R (sold)
10 duc 1198






the ducs valve train is ran off of a belt system instead of a chain (thats the short version) every 7500 miles the valve clearance needs to be checked and belts changed . it's not a maintenance task you should lag on because if the belts slip it will eat valves . Most people knock ducs because of that maintenance
dontbap()ssy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 11:40 AM   #3
BRYAN
Big and Cranky...
 
BRYAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: halfway to nowhere
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 3,256

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
A Trackbike
Another Trackbike
A Motard







Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbap()ssy View Post
the ducs valve train is ran off of a belt system instead of a chain (thats the short version) every 7500 miles the valve clearance needs to be checked and belts changed . it's not a maintenance task you should lag on because if the belts slip it will eat valves . Most people knock ducs because of that maintenance
^this


if you have the cheese to throw around. go for the duc. but they are expensive to maintain.
__________________
BRYAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #4
Neon Samurai
3090 MotoGP Champion
 
Neon Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kings Landing
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 3,221

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
2010 Ducati Streetfighter (sold)
2012 Triumph Speed Triple R
2008 Triumph Sprint ST (Sold)
2014 BMW s1000R
2012 Aprilia Tuono (sold)






Luckily monster is two valve...its not bad maintenance as the 4 valve super bikes. Depending how much you ride. I personally like the Striple a bit more...both bikes are great though.
Neon Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 12:35 PM   #5
Cethridge
Earth, Sky, Ambulance!
 
Cethridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nacogdoches
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 220

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
SV650-Motard Fighter
Trek
46 Ford







Don't let the belt stigma scare you. NASCAR been using belts to control their cams for over fifteen years. Also, every ProStock engine built has a belt in place of a timing chain, not to mention every import rice car that has been built since 1980. The belts very very very rarely fail. The biggest problem is getting to the valves which is what drives the cost up.
Cethridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 12:39 PM   #6
BYRDMAN
WX MAN
 
BYRDMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (8)
Posts: 9,311

Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2015 KTM Adventure 1190
2007 KTM 300 XC smoker
2007 KTM 300 XC smoker


Member Garage





Upgrading? I honestly think the FZ6r is better then both of those bikes....
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher, because its in English, thank a soldier"

AMERICAN MADE WITH MEXICAN PARTS
BYRDMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:13 PM   #7
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbap()ssy View Post
the ducs valve train is ran off of a belt system instead of a chain (thats the short version) every 7500 miles the valve clearance needs to be checked and belts changed . it's not a maintenance task you should lag on because if the belts slip it will eat valves . Most people knock ducs because of that maintenance
its not so much the belt system that makes it unique, its the way the valves are mechanically opened and closed during the combustion cycle, see link

http://www.ducatidesmo.com/valves.htm

nearly everybody else relies on a lobe to depress the valve and spring pressure to return it
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #8
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









and i'd pick the triumph every time
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:16 PM   #9
BRYAN
Big and Cranky...
 
BRYAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: halfway to nowhere
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 3,256

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
A Trackbike
Another Trackbike
A Motard







Quote:
Originally Posted by Cethridge View Post
Don't let the belt stigma scare you. NASCAR been using belts to control their cams for over fifteen years. Also, every ProStock engine built has a belt in place of a timing chain, not to mention every import rice car that has been built since 1980. The belts very very very rarely fail. The biggest problem is getting to the valves which is what drives the cost up.
yes, but remember, those engine's are rebuilt quite frequently during a race season.

correct me if i'm wrong, even though imports use belts on thier cams, the valves are not desmodronic.
__________________
BRYAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:20 PM   #10
Pachuco
So fly, I need feathers
 
Pachuco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston (Proper)
Feedback Rating: (6)
Posts: 3,823

Experience: 6 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1098s
S4RS
SC1000
999s
996 sps

Member Garage





Send a message via Yahoo to Pachuco
I would look at older monsters like an S4 or at least the 1100. The smaller ones are complete dogs
__________________
Stuntin like Jet Li, boat houses and jet ski's
Pachuco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:32 PM   #11
sql-lover
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 19

Experience: 4 years

Bike(s):
Yamaha fz6r
2010 Ninja 250 (sold)
2008 Ninja 250 (sold)







Lot of useful comments, thank you very much.

I do not ride a lot. I will ride it for pleasure or very short commute (10 miles every day)

I do not visit the race track and not a hardcore rider! ;-)

Having said that, I want a bike that won't break easily or the cost of repair or maintenance will be insane. While I can afford most of my "toys", if the service is cheaper or better yet, if the bike is reliable, that will have lot of weight on my final decision.

I checked both bikes and love both! The Ducati is really sexy looking!

The Ducati is upright but I'm more towards handle bars and tank. While the Street Triple is more upright, very similar (maybe better) than my fz6r.

However, I've read bunch of stuff about Ducati's valve system plus that is air cooled (Houston is hot as )
sql-lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:34 PM   #12
sql-lover
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 19

Experience: 4 years

Bike(s):
Yamaha fz6r
2010 Ninja 250 (sold)
2008 Ninja 250 (sold)







Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
I would look at older monsters like an S4 or at least the 1100. The smaller ones are complete dogs
Thanks!

But not interested on liter bikes!

Also, I know I will loss money because depreciation, etc, but I don't like used bikes. New, I know what I'm getting and can enjoy of 1 year warranty at least. I do not have the time or skills (or desire), to repair my own bike if something goes wrong.
sql-lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:38 PM   #13
Pachuco
So fly, I need feathers
 
Pachuco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston (Proper)
Feedback Rating: (6)
Posts: 3,823

Experience: 6 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
1098s
S4RS
SC1000
999s
996 sps

Member Garage





Send a message via Yahoo to Pachuco
Quote:
Originally Posted by sql-lover View Post
Thanks!

But not interested on liter bikes!

Also, I know I will loss money because depreciation, etc, but I don't like used bikes. New, I know what I'm getting and can enjoy of 1 year warranty at least. I do not have the time or skills (or desire), to repair my own bike if something goes wrong.
yeah, get you something
__________________
Stuntin like Jet Li, boat houses and jet ski's
Pachuco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 01:53 PM   #14
Neon Samurai
3090 MotoGP Champion
 
Neon Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kings Landing
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 3,221

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
2010 Ducati Streetfighter (sold)
2012 Triumph Speed Triple R
2008 Triumph Sprint ST (Sold)
2014 BMW s1000R
2012 Aprilia Tuono (sold)






Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
yeah, get you something
Yeah these guys dont understand the allure of a true motorbike, Ducati.
Neon Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #15
Cethridge
Earth, Sky, Ambulance!
 
Cethridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Nacogdoches
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 220

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
SV650-Motard Fighter
Trek
46 Ford







Quote:
Originally Posted by BRYAN View Post
yes, but remember, those engine's are rebuilt quite frequently during a race season.

correct me if i'm wrong, even though imports use belts on thier cams, the valves are not desmodronic.
You are correct. I was just pointing out that belt technology is on par with chains and is not a reason to discount the Duc. Could you imagine a desmo car engine! Yikes!

And, the engines in most high dollar series are never rebuilt, they are all new for each race. (maybe not the ProStock but definately the NASCAR)
Cethridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 03:50 PM   #16
Japawhat02
02 Tona
 
Japawhat02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: P-land
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,939

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
2002 Daytona









sounds like you need a harley....lol
__________________
2002 Brittish Rocket
Japawhat02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 03:50 PM   #17
Japawhat02
02 Tona
 
Japawhat02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: P-land
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 6,939

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
2002 Daytona









my vote is for street triple, but im biased
__________________
2002 Brittish Rocket
Japawhat02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:27 PM   #18
Bigshankhank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cypress
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,231

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
1972 Aermacchi Sprint SX350
1972 Honda CL175 K5
1978 Kawasaki KE100
1978 Kawasaki KE250
1970 Suzuki TC90






I've had several Ducati's, and at least for the new models (696 included) the valve train maintenance is much less than the earlier models. Do not be afraid of the maintenance cost, it is on par with the Trump and only slightly less than high-po Japanese bikes.
As to how the desmodromic valvetrain works, it is an overhead cam actuated by a belt, but that is not uncommon as others have stated. What makes it different is there are two rockers on each valve, rather than one rocker and a spring. As the lobes of the cam spin, one lobe pushes the rocker which presses the valve stem down (open). As the cam spins further, this rocker releases the valve while the cam lobe pushes the other rocker which in turn lifts the valve stem (closed). The animation linked earlier demonstrates this better than words can describe, its rather simple when you get into it, just different from what other manufacturer's use and that's what freaks people out.
Check out Desmotimes for do-it-yourself maintenance parts, tools and manuals. Like I said, it is easy to do your own maintenance on a Duc 2-valve bike, so don't be scared.

Last edited by Bigshankhank; 03-30-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: spelling errors
Bigshankhank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:51 PM   #19
sql-lover
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 19

Experience: 4 years

Bike(s):
Yamaha fz6r
2010 Ninja 250 (sold)
2008 Ninja 250 (sold)







Thanks, thanks again!

Now I need to analyze this with brain, not heart! ;-) ...

I am planning to close the deal in a few weeks, a saturday. The dealer sells both, so I just need to choose. But the Ducati is gorgeous, and is so light that feels like a toy!

But the Triumph is so comfortable. I love the idea of having shift indicators! And the stock sound is an orgasmic experience, lol ...

Trying to get non biased and technical arguments that move the scale to one side or the other.
sql-lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #20
darklineninja
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spring
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 203

Experience: 2 years

Bike(s):
2011 Kawasaki ninja zx10r
09 speed triple
07 kawasaki zx10r
08 honda CBR 600
07 yamaha R6






Id go for the triple. Try and get the S model. Well worth the money.
darklineninja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy