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Old 02-08-2012, 01:51 PM   #41
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OMG, the reason these facking thieves are so brazen, is because of Pacifists like the very people responding on this board. The great pacification of America. If thieves were being shot (like they should be) there would be 2 positive results: 1 - Less thieves. 2 - It would serve as a perfect deterrent.

The thing you pacifists fail to realize, is that far too often, violent crimes are committed during the commission of home robberies. Rape, beatings, shootings, stabbings, and murders. Wake up people were going to be pacified into our facking graves at this rate...

We have become far to soft, and pussified, or just chicken , give me a break...
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Solyjr View Post
OMG, the reason these facking thieves are so brazen, is because of Pacifists like the very people responding on this board. The great pacification of America. If thieves were being shot (like they should be) there would be 2 positive results: 1 - Less thieves. 2 - It would serve as a perfect deterrent.

The thing you pacifists fail to realize, is that far too often, violent crimes are committed during the commission of home robberies. Rape, beatings, shootings, stabbings, and murders. Wake up people were going to be pacified into our facking graves at this rate...

We have become far to soft, and pussified, or just chicken , give me a break...
IMHO

I think this has a lot to do with the government and liberal organizations crucifing law abiding citizens, for defending themselves and giving all the rights to the criminals for so many years!

You shoot someone in self-defense and it still cost you a ton of money & time to prove your innocent.....Most of the time!
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:58 PM   #43
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$5 says they were high on meth, bath salts and who knows what else.

Should have given them lead poisioning.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #44
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IMHO

I think this has a lot to do with the government and liberal organizations crucifing law abiding citizens, for defending themselves and giving all the rights to the criminals for so many years!

You shoot someone in self-defense and it still cost you a ton of money & time to prove your innocent.....Most of the time!
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:11 PM   #45
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IMHO

I think this has a lot to do with the government and liberal organizations crucifing law abiding citizens, for defending themselves and giving all the rights to the criminals for so many years!

You shoot someone in self-defense and it still cost you a ton of money & time to prove your innocent.....Most of the time!
thats true, I was told to expect to pay 5 to 15k if I ever needed to defend myself with deadly force.

15k is a bunch of money.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:13 PM   #46
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:23 PM   #47
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Texas laws are actually VERY favorable for the good guys. In fact, they have been improved CONSIDERABLY since Joe Horn.

There is now the *presumption* of reasonableness in your use of force, if the BG uses force to enter your home, car, or business. And 'force' includes twisting a doorknob, or pushing open an unlocked door.

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I wouldn't be scared that they will be back ,but if you have a friend that owns guns or if you own a gun it wouldn't be a bad idea to have it close by,I wouln't shoot unless it gets real the Texas laws are full of Joe Horn got lucky they didnt throw his in prison.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #48
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Yeah who knows what they were going to do. But I was in no real threat at the moment. Now, if they would have gotten into the garage it would have put it into a whole new ball park. Yes I have insurance on my bike. So they could have had it with out a problem. , the keys were even in the bike. lol. But since it played out the way it did, I didn't need to take matters into a different direction. the good thing for me is that the kids slept right through it and didn't have to go through a panic state of an attempted robbery.

Today, they are aware of it and not all freaked out. If they had woken up, i'm sure they would be home from school scared to go out side and what not.

For all of you who say just shoot them. Easier said than done. So i think alot of it is just keyboard cowboy talk, but don't get me wrong.... I had plenty of ideas on what i would have liked to do.


here are the main things that stopped me from stepping outside. 1)my kids. 2) I dind't know how many were out there I knew it wouldn't be just one guy. and yes, there was another. So I definatelly made the right move by staying in. Lets say I walkout and take care of the 1st guy and the other guy I didn't see walks up behind me.... I don't think he is going to want to see how much i'm getting back on my taxes..... ya know...
I think you made a decent choice, family first and all that, but I must have misunderstood, I thought you said they were in your garage...

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I do have a bike but I'm NOT sure that what they were after. 12:30am my garage door starts to go up.(wakes wifey and I). So I go look out the front door peep hole and there stands a guy walking into my garage. I hit door to let them know I see him and he casually walks away. And I mean CASUALLY walks away. I guess he wasnt sure if he heard anything because he and a partner came back about 2 minutes later.

Basically they went into our car and used the door opener to open the garage.

Both were caught and are in jail tonight. Both were out on bond for what ever reason. About an hour before us, they robbed an older lady at Walmart. They litterally walked up to her and yanked her purse from her. So it was said by the cops. The lady was still at Walmart so they brought her to ID the guys. and it was the same ones.


Just thought i'd post.
Oh, no, that is what you said.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #49
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...facking...The great pacification of America...facking...

Case in point: someone too "pussified" to spell "facking" the right way.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:45 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Solyjr View Post
OMG, the reason these facking thieves are so brazen, is because of Pacifists like the very people responding on this board. The great pacification of America. If thieves were being shot (like they should be) there would be 2 positive results: 1 - Less thieves. 2 - It would serve as a perfect deterrent.

The thing you pacifists fail to realize, is that far too often, violent crimes are committed during the commission of home robberies. Rape, beatings, shootings, stabbings, and murders. Wake up people were going to be pacified into our facking graves at this rate...

We have become far to soft, and pussified, or just chicken , give me a break...
I believe in trusting your gut about what you should get into. I personally would have got after it in that situation, which is where mine generally leads me. This guy made a call on what to do in the thick of it so to speak, and I'm not going to criticize that call from a laptop, after the fact
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:33 PM   #51
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He was one step away from stepping into the garage. He was heading in to it. If he would have went in, that’s when I would have felt my family could have been in danger. Once inside then he could have closed the garage door and tried to get in the house. This would probably result in a whole thread. Actually I wouldn't have posted about it then.

I do see both sides of what you guys are saying. And there were several plans in my head of what I “thought” I could do. It’s funny because at work I can't come up with that many ideas that quick. lol
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:33 PM   #52
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If Joe can shoot and kill someone in broad daylight for breaking into a neighbor’s home while they are making a getaway after being warned by a 911 dispatcher to stay inside his home, I'm pretty confident I'll be fine in dropping a thief that has stepped onto my property at night
I agree with your point but that may not be the best example because that Joe guy paid dearly for his decision in court defending himself. He lost alot. My point is that even though you may be in your rights, you still have to prove that in court.

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IMHO

I think this has a lot to do with the government and liberal organizations crucifing law abiding citizens, for defending themselves and giving all the rights to the criminals for so many years!

You shoot someone in self-defense and it still cost you a ton of money & time to prove your innocent.....Most of the time!
Bingo

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Originally Posted by urbanXJ View Post
thats true, I was told to expect to pay 5 to 15k if I ever needed to defend myself with deadly force.

15k is a bunch of money.
Bingo x2

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Originally Posted by rhenriksen View Post
Texas laws are actually VERY favorable for the good guys. In fact, they have been improved CONSIDERABLY since Joe Horn.

There is now the *presumption* of reasonableness in your use of force, if the BG uses force to enter your home, car, or business. And 'force' includes twisting a doorknob, or pushing open an unlocked door.

One of the reasons i love Texas. The main point is that you have to prove that using deadly force was justified most of the time. They say you need to know where you draw the line when it comes to when you pull the trigger and when you won't. Have a plan of action for different scenarios to try and not get stuck in a grey area with the law.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #53
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I agree with your point but that may not be the best example because that Joe guy paid dearly for his decision in court defending himself. He lost alot. My point is that even though you may be in your rights, you still have to prove that in court.
Are you sure the Joe Horn case went to trial?
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:49 PM   #54
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disclaimer: im not a lawyer
dont "shoot to kill" "shoot to stop a threat". using deadly force wit intent to kill is murder. if the person happens to die as an outcome of lawful use of deadly force is the same result approached from a different angle, but walking up to a criminal and plugging the guy in the head a few times after he hits the ground and is no longer a threat wont look too good...



click the link for better formatting. i bolded part bevo alluded to. look up definitions of robbery and burglary (they sound similar but arent the same)http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../PE.9.htm#9.41

Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and(3) he reasonably believes that:(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Just reading the laws on the link you posted enforces my love for Texas.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:51 PM   #55
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He was one step away from stepping into the garage. He was heading in to it. If he would have went in, that’s when I would have felt my family could have been in danger. Once inside then he could have closed the garage door and tried to get in the house. This would probably result in a whole thread. Actually I wouldn't have posted about it then.

I do see both sides of what you guys are saying. And there were several plans in my head of what I “thought” I could do. It’s funny because at work I can't come up with that many ideas that quick. lol
You did good, you protected your family. Should have let them knock first though, and let the 12 gauge knock back.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:50 PM   #56
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Are you sure the Joe Horn case went to trial?
he was "no-billed" by the grand jury after a couple weeks of testomony.

I'm going to want a lawyer if Im in front of a grand jury
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:55 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertinhouston View Post
He was one step away from stepping into the garage. He was heading in to it. If he would have went in, that’s when I would have felt my family could have been in danger. Once inside then he could have closed the garage door and tried to get in the house. This would probably result in a whole thread. Actually I wouldn't have posted about it then.

I do see both sides of what you guys are saying. And there were several plans in my head of what I “thought” I could do. It’s funny because at work I can't come up with that many ideas that quick. lol
i don't see a prob. what you did, it could have been handled diff. but in the end, your family was safe and nothing got stolen.

do you have guns? did you have a gun at your side by the door?
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:58 PM   #58
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he was "no-billed" by the grand jury after a couple weeks of testomony.

I'm going to want a lawyer if Im in front of a grand jury
Right, and that comes a lot cheaper than representation for a murder or manslaughter trial. Joe shot two guys in the back that were trying to get away in broad daylight. You shoot a thief on your own property at night and you won't even be charged.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:59 PM   #59
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agreed, but you'd be stupid to goto a GJ w/o representation.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #60
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agreed, but you'd be stupid to goto a GJ w/o representation.
You have to be charged before it can go to a GJ
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