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Old 12-05-2006, 12:43 PM   #21
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so you pay a penalty fee for getting forced over to them?
No, Reliant is the 800lb gorilla who buys up the assets and customers of providers who go under and put those customers on Reliant's highest rate. It's something around .21/kwh.

You have to make sure that your electric company is still arouind at the end of the month, thats all.
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:44 PM   #22
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It's the solar power that is already making the bill high!!!
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonR1
link to solar power system???
You have to hunt around for it and I don't have time right now.

BP makes good systems.

http://www.bp.com/modularhome.do?cat...tentId=7004852

Look around the net, there are a lot of dealers for this stuff in and around the Austin area. I have priced an on-grid system for my house and it was around 13K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonR1
will it run the surround sound system in the garage while im working?:icon_bigg
That and your AC can be set at 60 all sumer long and since you will be making your own electricity.
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Old 12-05-2006, 01:20 PM   #24
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any downsides to solar? like, how long does it store it for? does it get power even if its a bunch of constant overcast days?
how about damage? What kind of protection do they have
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:30 PM   #25
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woot woot for solar power!! i built and raced a solar powered car in college...so i'll make a couple comments here, lol.

scrapp...downsides to solar include several things...where to place the panels, having to keep them clean, inital investment cost, integration problems, safety concerns, fire hazards, etc. as far as storing the energy, it can be stored as long as you want with the limitations only on your storage medium (probably batteries). solar panels are sensitive to how normal they are with respect to sun rays, and the 'brightness' of sun. so yes, and no with your question on getting power on overcast days....they will still get some power, but probably not enough to warrant keeping the tracking systems up to transform the power into stored energy...this kindof depends on how you go about pulling the power from the solar array.

solar cells are effetively pieces of glass, hence they need to be protected or 'encapsulated'. ususally in industrial settings, this is done by placing the cells under a sheet of glass...like your window. therefore, i believe, unless you have severe hail or other environmental anomalies, they should be relatively safe.

and gigalo...there is probably no practical way to effectively generate enough solar energy to keep your house 60 all summer long. think about it...a small A/C unit can use maybe 20 amps at 120 volts...that's 2400 watts of energy. now, a solar panel with 15% (average) efficient cells can produce about 150 watts of power per square meter. assuming a 90% efficiency in your transformation from the DC power the cells put out, to the DC-AC power inverteer leaves you with 135 watts of power per square meter of cell area. This would require ~18 square meters of cell area to just run the A/C unit. Now take into effect that the cells probably aren't perfectly aligned to the sun, the glass probably needs to be clean, and the sky isn't super clear that day....now you are maybe around 10% efficient. so now you are looking at ~33 square meters of cell area. since you probably want your A/C at night, double that cell area so you can store up enough energy in the day and tack on some extra cause you arent' going to get much power at all first thing and last night in the day, and you are easily up around 100 square meters of cell area you need. ...you get the idea.

there's a lot more to it though...especially when you are talking about powering a house or something large. the battery pack to simply run that A/C unit would need to be large...~30kw-hrs (2.4kw x 12hrs)..that's big...and a lot of energy...very similar to a bomb to be honest.

all for now.
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:51 PM   #26
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WAIT A MINUTE! my company is currently buying a solar powered injection pump business. WE'LL be making our own system in a short time..

Did i hear "DISCOUNT"?
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:02 PM   #27
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Reliant may be paying you soon
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:02 PM   #28
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max, I love you.
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max
woot woot for solar power!! i built and raced a solar powered car in college...so i'll make a couple comments here, lol.

scrapp...downsides to solar include several things...where to place the panels, having to keep them clean, inital investment cost, integration problems, safety concerns, fire hazards, etc. as far as storing the energy, it can be stored as long as you want with the limitations only on your storage medium (probably batteries). solar panels are sensitive to how normal they are with respect to sun rays, and the 'brightness' of sun. so yes, and no with your question on getting power on overcast days....they will still get some power, but probably not enough to warrant keeping the tracking systems up to transform the power into stored energy...this kindof depends on how you go about pulling the power from the solar array.

solar cells are effetively pieces of glass, hence they need to be protected or 'encapsulated'. ususally in industrial settings, this is done by placing the cells under a sheet of glass...like your window. therefore, i believe, unless you have severe hail or other environmental anomalies, they should be relatively safe.

and gigalo...there is probably no practical way to effectively generate enough solar energy to keep your house 60 all summer long. think about it...a small A/C unit can use maybe 20 amps at 120 volts...that's 2400 watts of energy. now, a solar panel with 15% (average) efficient cells can produce about 150 watts of power per square meter. assuming a 90% efficiency in your transformation from the DC power the cells put out, to the DC-AC power inverteer leaves you with 135 watts of power per square meter of cell area. This would require ~18 square meters of cell area to just run the A/C unit. Now take into effect that the cells probably aren't perfectly aligned to the sun, the glass probably needs to be clean, and the sky isn't super clear that day....now you are maybe around 10% efficient. so now you are looking at ~33 square meters of cell area. since you probably want your A/C at night, double that cell area so you can store up enough energy in the day and tack on some extra cause you arent' going to get much power at all first thing and last night in the day, and you are easily up around 100 square meters of cell area you need. ...you get the idea.

there's a lot more to it though...especially when you are talking about powering a house or something large. the battery pack to simply run that A/C unit would need to be large...~30kw-hrs (2.4kw x 12hrs)..that's big...and a lot of energy...very similar to a bomb to be honest.

all for now.
engineers:laughing6 Thanks for saving me 13K...........I was all set to get the thing installed:BangHead:
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:07 PM   #30
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max, I love you.
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:16 PM   #31
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:38 PM   #32
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I;m with econnergy, they treat me well and way cheaper than reliant. in thre peak summer months my electril bill was around 230, not, it's about 90, but gas will be higher.
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:51 PM   #33
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From my research into the matter.

You can power a house with a roof mounted solar power system. Depending on the size of your home and your electricity usage, you can get a grid connected system that uses the existing power grid as your battery back up.

You have made some very good points Max, and yes, the system to power a house would be a large system. But lets look at your own math. The square root of 33 meters is 5.744 meters. 5.744 meters = 18.84 feet. 18.84 feet squared = ~355 square feet of roof space that would be covered.

The size of your system also would depend on the size of your home. I have a 1 story home that has 1600 square feet of floor space + a two car garage. This equates to around 2000 square feet of roof space. 355 square feet is less then the roof area over my two car garage.

Using the grid as your battery back up allows you to buy more electricity from the power company when you need it, and when you are making more electricity then you are using you will be selling the electricity company the extra power that you are producing. This is tracked tough a two way power meter that you will have as part of your solar systems. Potentially, you could have a scenario where the power company sends you a check every month for the extra electricity you produce.

Yes, there is an extensive start up cost involved in getting the system. The 13K that it would cost me to have a viable solar system on my home would be the costs of the equipment only. I am a do it yourself kind of guy, so I would want to install it on my home.

Also, these systems can be added onto easily in the future if your home power needs increase.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
From my research into the matter.

You can power a house with a roof mounted solar power system. Depending on the size of your home and your electricity usage, you can get a grid connected system that uses the existing power grid as your battery back up.

You have made some very good points Max, and yes, the system to power a house would be a large system. But lets look at your own math. The square root of 33 meters is 5.744 meters. 5.744 meters = 18.84 feet. 18.84 feet squared = ~355 square feet of roof space that would be covered.

The size of your system also would depend on the size of your home. I have a 1 story home that has 1600 square feet of floor space + a two car garage. This equates to around 2000 square feet of roof space. 355 square feet is less then the roof area over my two car garage.

Using the grid as your battery back up allows you to buy more electricity from the power company when you need it, and when you are making more electricity then you are using you will be selling the electricity company the extra power that you are producing. This is tracked tough a two way power meter that you will have as part of your solar systems. Potentially, you could have a scenario where the power company sends you a check every month for the extra electricity you produce.

Yes, there is an extensive start up cost involved in getting the system. The 13K that it would cost me to have a viable solar system on my home would be the costs of the equipment only. I am a do it yourself kind of guy, so I would want to install it on my home.

Also, these systems can be added onto easily in the future if your home power needs increase.


Lemme know once you have it installed.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:05 PM   #35
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Lemme know once you have it installed.
lol,

I haven't even bought the equipment.

This years major expense for me was having my son and buying a house. lol If not next year, the year after. I will have one though.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:34 PM   #36
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i never said it couldn't be done...just it wouldn't be very cost effective with todays prices. plus, how much power did your 13k system get you in ideal conditions?? if you dig a little into bp's website i found this niffty little calculator...see what you think. http://www.bp.com/solarsavings.do?categoryId=9009469

sure you can go ahead and put large arrays on your house, but i would advise you to at least look at the roi before you spend the money just to be green.

selling back power is a great way to solve the storage problem...don't know why i didnt' remember that earlier. but still...looking at their calculator....a 1kw array will provide about ~100kw-hrs of power a month, or about 1200 kw-hrs a year. at 15 cents a kw-h that is 180 bucks (array retail price is 9k). a 5kw-h array they predict will generate about 6000 kw-h a year which is at 15 cents is 900 bucks (array retail price 42k).

with todays prices...i think there are better investments for my money. maybe as electricity prices rise and cell prices drop it will be more economic in the future.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:37 PM   #37
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you know, I think you boys just made me realize what I would love to do.

enterpenuer in designing more cost efficient solar power. create a company that focuses on allowing people to make their own power, and also supply to their neihbors......Kind of like a "p2p" network.

Think of the advantages...cleaner citys, no more power hungry companys...and then I could manage a "repair" team, and that would be the only cost of them, monthy cleans or fixes and such.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:11 PM   #38
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Max, I have looked at BP, they make nice systems, they are however a little pricey and that particular calculator is for a complete off the grid system with an on sight battery backups. A complete off the grid system is much more expensive then a grid-connected system which utilizes the grid as the battery. There are cheaper ways to get the job done then the BP way.

Also, speaking of ROI, lets add things up a bit shall we. Lets say that your electricity bill today is $150 a month average. This is probably realistic for some on this board, high for some, and low for others. Lets do a little math with this,

$150 a month * 12 Months = $1800 a year for electricity.

$1800 x 25 years = $45,000

25 years is the base life expectancy of a modern solar panel. The above math assumes that the cost of energy will not rise over the next 35 years, which is not a realistic expectation.

I have researched this in the anticipation of doing it myself.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:28 PM   #39
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gigalo, best of luck.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:35 PM   #40
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you two have officially "NERDED out" on this thread

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