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Old 12-07-2011, 12:19 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaroz2866 View Post
This thread fails for the most part!
True, but they all fail!
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:32 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
There was a Lamborghini in our install bay a while back that showed 95 as a recommended fuel rating. Hope the European ratings are higher, otherwise he's screwed.
US uses a different unit of measure.
RON, MON, and AKI. AKI is the average of R an M

My bike is listed as "91 RON"
Fuel pumps in US are "R+M/2"

Technically, 87 here in the US is "91 RON"

Look at the units, not just the numbers

(did i just start a whole new argument? Sweeeet.)

MH doesn't like having a link to wikipedia, but they have a chart that compares the different measurements.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:53 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinball View Post
Nice 45 page PDF with no reference to a page number. I skimmed the first few pages, & around page 4, I saw "10% ethanol or less," which tells me there us no requirement to use 10%. It talks mostly about E15, which is recommended, but there is no requirement to produce it, and labeling requirements for ethanol blend fuels.
The Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990
Title II: Provisions Relating to Mobile Sources
Fuel quality will also be controlled. Scheduled reductions in
gasoline volatility and sulfur content of diesel fuel, for example,
will be required. New programs requiring cleaner (so-called
"reformulated" gasoline) will be initiated in 1995 for the nine
cities with the worst ozone problems
.


EPA has several programs that establish standards for gasoline:

*The Tier 2 Gasoline Sulfur program
reduced the sulfur content of gasoline by up to 90 percent from uncontrolled levels. Phased in from 2004-2007, and now in effect, the program allows refiners to produce gasoline with a range of sulfur levels as long as their annual corporate average does not exceed 30 parts per million (ppm). In addition, no individual batch can exceed 80 ppm.

*The Mobile Source Air Toxics (MSAT) rules reduce hazardous air pollutants, also known as air toxics, emitted by cars and trucks. Air toxics include benzene and other hydrocarbons such as 1,3-butadiene, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, and naphthalene.

*Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) was mandated for metropolitan areas with the worst smog beginning in 1995. RFG is blended to burn more cleanly than conventional gasoline, reducing emissions of smog-forming and toxic pollutants.

*EPA regulates the volatility/Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) of conventional gasoline sold at retail stations during the summer smog season (June 1-September 15) to reduce evaporative emissions that contribute to smog.

*Winter Oxygenated Fuel programs increase fuel oxygen and are mandated in certain areas for carbon monoxide control. The winter oxygenated fuel season is generally October through February or March.

*E15 is a fuel containing a mixture of gasoline and ethanol, specifically 15 volume % ethanol and 85 volume % gasoline. EPA, in response to a request by Growth Energy under section 211(f)(4) of the Clean Air Act, has granted a partial waiver to allow E15 to be introduced into commerce for use in model year 2001 and newer light-duty motor vehicles, subject to several conditions. Fuel and fuel additive manufacturers are required to register the E15 with EPA prior to beginning distribution of the fuel.


from the pdf summary...

EPA granted partial waivers that allow gasoline
containing greater than 10 volume
percent (vol%) ethanol up to 15 vol%
ethanol (E15) to be introduced into
commerce for use in model year (MY)
2001 and newer light-duty motor
vehicles,...
Finally, today’s action denies a petition
for rulemaking to require retail stations
to offer for sale gasoline containing 10
vol% ethanol or less.


DATES: This final rule is effective on
August 24, 2011.

15% is coming too!
especially since the companies are paid to add the ethanol so the incentive is to add more
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:58 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
The Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990
Title II: Provisions Relating to Mobile Sources
Fuel quality will also be controlled. Scheduled reductions in
gasoline volatility and sulfur content of diesel fuel, for example,
will be required. New programs requiring cleaner (so-called
"reformulated" gasoline) will be initiated in 1995 for the nine
cities with the worst ozone problems
.


EPA has several programs that establish standards for gasoline:

*The Tier 2 Gasoline Sulfur program
reduced the sulfur content of gasoline by up to 90 percent from uncontrolled levels. Phased in from 2004-2007, and now in effect, the program allows refiners to produce gasoline with a range of sulfur levels as long as their annual corporate average does not exceed 30 parts per million (ppm). In addition, no individual batch can exceed 80 ppm.

*The Mobile Source Air Toxics (MSAT) rules reduce hazardous air pollutants, also known as air toxics, emitted by cars and trucks. Air toxics include benzene and other hydrocarbons such as 1,3-butadiene, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, and naphthalene.

*Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) was mandated for metropolitan areas with the worst smog beginning in 1995. RFG is blended to burn more cleanly than conventional gasoline, reducing emissions of smog-forming and toxic pollutants.

*EPA regulates the volatility/Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) of conventional gasoline sold at retail stations during the summer smog season (June 1-September 15) to reduce evaporative emissions that contribute to smog.

*Winter Oxygenated Fuel programs increase fuel oxygen and are mandated in certain areas for carbon monoxide control. The winter oxygenated fuel season is generally October through February or March.

*E15 is a fuel containing a mixture of gasoline and ethanol, specifically 15 volume % ethanol and 85 volume % gasoline. EPA, in response to a request by Growth Energy under section 211(f)(4) of the Clean Air Act, has granted a partial waiver to allow E15 to be introduced into commerce for use in model year 2001 and newer light-duty motor vehicles, subject to several conditions. Fuel and fuel additive manufacturers are required to register the E15 with EPA prior to beginning distribution of the fuel.


from the pdf summary...

EPA granted partial waivers that allow gasoline
containing greater than 10 volume
percent (vol%) ethanol up to 15 vol%
ethanol (E15) to be introduced into
commerce for use in model year (MY)
2001 and newer light-duty motor
vehicles,...
Finally, today’s action denies a petition
for rulemaking to require retail stations
to offer for sale gasoline containing 10
vol% ethanol or less.


DATES: This final rule is effective on
August 24, 2011.

15% is coming too!
especially since the companies are paid to add the ethanol so the incentive is to add more
And once again they us......
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:59 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by craig_gsxr600 View Post
And once again they us......
totally
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:00 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy42083 View Post
US uses a different unit of measure.
RON, MON, and AKI. AKI is the average of R an M

My bike is listed as "91 RON"
Fuel pumps in US are "R+M/2"

Technically, 87 here in the US is "91 RON"

Look at the units, not just the numbers

(did i just start a whole new argument? Sweeeet.)

MH doesn't like having a link to wikipedia, but they have a chart that compares the different measurements.
Ahhha! This thread did not fail as we were led to believe!
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:02 AM   #107
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totally
I am at a loss for words....
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:34 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaroz2866 View Post
This thread fails for the most part!
I can't believe it's gone to 6 pages!. LOL
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:09 AM   #109
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How have you been Pinball? And true that to your post. How else would they make their money? Special tool required to change anything! Take car to dealer so they can rape you.
Been doing pretty good. My foot is getting better slowly. Hoping to be back to 100% in a month.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:37 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
The Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990
Title II: Provisions Relating to Mobile Sources
Fuel quality will also be controlled. Scheduled reductions in
gasoline volatility and sulfur content of diesel fuel, for example,
will be required. New programs requiring cleaner (so-called
"reformulated" gasoline) will be initiated in 1995 for the nine
cities with the worst ozone problems
.


Yeah...most of us know this by now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
*Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) was mandated for metropolitan areas with the worst smog beginning in 1995. RFG is blended to burn more cleanly than conventional gasoline, reducing emissions of smog-forming and toxic pollutants.
[SIZE="1"]
RFG only means that the gasoline contains SOME ethanol. E10 simply means the gasoline can contain UP TO 10% ethanol, just like E15 means an ethanol content from 10-15%. I got almost halfway through the PDF this morning, and still haven't seen where 10% ethanol is a requirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
*E15 is a fuel containing a mixture of gasoline and ethanol, specifically 15 volume % ethanol and 85 volume % gasoline. EPA, in response to a request by Growth Energy under section 211(f)(4) of the Clean Air Act, has granted a partial waiver to allow E15 to be introduced into commerce for use in model year 2001 and newer light-duty motor vehicles, subject to several conditions. Fuel and fuel additive manufacturers are required to register the E15 with EPA prior to beginning distribution of the fuel.
See above. The PDF says E15 refers to gasoline containing between 10% and 15% ethanol. It does not say the full 15% is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
from the pdf summary...

EPA granted partial waivers that allow gasoline
containing greater than 10 volume
percent (vol%) ethanol up to 15 vol%
ethanol (E15) to be introduced into
commerce for use in model year (MY)
2001 and newer light-duty motor
vehicles,...
Finally, today’s action denies a petition
for rulemaking to require retail stations
to offer for sale gasoline containing 10
vol% ethanol or less.


DATES: This final rule is effective on
August 24, 2011.
Ooh! Look! Your own post confirms what I said about E15 not necessarily being 15% ethanol. As for the bold text, all that means is that some stations don't have to sell E10 or E0 if they don't want to. To spell that out, it means it gives stations the OPTION to sell only E15 gasoline.

Nowhere does the PDF say that E10 will be banned from production. For that matter, RFG is only required in "high smog" cities (and surrounding counties). In fact, it says E10 production MUST continue because of vehicles manufactured prior to 2001. E15 in older vehicles degrades engine parts and according to testing, causes an increase in harmful emissions.

Marty...I said it in the states vs. Constitution thread, and I will say it again. You are either an idiot or a troll, and the more of your posts I read, the more inclined I am to believe that both terms apply to you.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:48 AM   #111
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10% isn't required, but refineries get paid for the ethanol they use. only makes sense to peg out the blend for max income assuming the ethanold doesn't eat up your refinery/plant.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #112
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10% isn't required, but refineries get paid for the ethanol they use. only makes sense to peg out the blend for max income assuming the ethanold doesn't eat up your refinery/plant.

Im glad you understand the point of my posts.

the fuel is mixed at "mixing stations"too, that I believe are separate from the refinery
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:01 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
Im glad you understand the point of my posts.

the fuel is mixed at "mixing stations"too, that I believe are separate from the refinery
The mixing stations are, generally speaking, only used to add brand-specific detergent packages ala "chevron with techron."
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:16 AM   #114
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I cant help but laugh at " I ran 87 once and the bike ran like "
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:16 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
The mixing stations are, generally speaking, only used to add brand-specific detergent packages ala "chevron with techron."


Im not sure as to "what" is mixed and "where", I was reading about the new E15 and biodiesel, requiring more mixing stations before it would be implemented.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:35 AM   #116
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.............
Marty...I said it once and I will say it again. You are either an idiot or a troll, and the more of your posts I read, the more inclined I am to believe that both terms apply to you.
dont get frustrated, you are NOT required to read my posts..
its your constitutional right!



you said you couldn't find where is was "required", I just pointed to the Clean Air Act, which of course you "knew" already ...and the "subsidizing" motivator. wasn't trying to upset you.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:50 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
Im not sure as to "what" is mixed and "where", I was reading about the new E15 and biodiesel, requiring more mixing stations before it would be implemented.
Probably. What comes out of the refineries is 100% refined product. The mixing stations then add the detergents, the ethanol, and the biofuels.

And pretty much everyone fills up at the same refinery spigot. The only difference between brands is what they put in the gas at the mixing station.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:56 AM   #118
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Shell tastes the best by far. Do your own taste test and see
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:57 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Probably. What comes out of the refineries is 100% refined product. The mixing stations then add the detergents, the ethanol, and the other biofuels.

And pretty much everyone fills up at the same refinery spigot. The only difference between brands is what they put in the gas at the mixing station.
Fixed.
Ethanol is a biofuel.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:00 AM   #120
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Shell tastes the best by far. Do your own taste test and see
Shell sucks..

Ever since they changed from the good old pink Super to the clear, it has been .

Not to mention they usually average 2-5 cents more than Chevron, Exxon and Valero.

That is all...
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