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Old 12-06-2011, 06:43 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Generally speaking, if they're going to put ethanol in a fuel, the put the maximum 10%. This idea that there's less ethanol in premium (93 octane for sake of argument) I think is strange, and I addressed this in my earlier post: because ethanol's octane is higher than that of even premium, it actually makes more sense to put more if it into premium than regular.
Doesn't matter that the octane level of ethanol is higher than gasoline, it's all about cost and quality of the gasoline. Gasoline with less ethanol is higher quality, and ethanol costs more to produce than gasoline. It also takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that gallon will produce upon combustion, so ethanol producers cannot use it to power the equipment they use to harvest the corn and derive fuel from it.

That said...why would a refinery put any more ethanol in gasoline than was required by law if they didn't have to? Valero doesn't fall into that category, though, because they're -deep in the ethanol business and are receiving subsidies to compensate for their losses...and yes, without subsidies, producing ethanol costs more than you would make selling it.

All the EPA says is that in certain areas, gasoline has to contain some ethanol. I've been unable to locate a reference that says they require a percentage.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:57 PM   #82
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i think ethanol's contribution at boosting octane rating decreases as base fuel octane increase.
(made up numbers)
example 1: lets say ethanol is 100 octane. if it is mixed 50/50 with 50 octane gas, average octane is 75. that's a whopping increase of 25 octane.

example 2: lets say the same 100 octane ethanol is mixed 50/50 with 90 octane gas. average octane is 95. that's only a 5 octane boost.

if my math is right and octane averages nicely like the two examples, what's the real world application? for a given limit of 10% ethanol, you can use lower grade gas to make 87 octane compared to making 93 octane.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:03 PM   #83
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Well from now on, I'll fill up after someone on a ride. When I fill my car up with 93 octane I will fill up the gas cans for the short errands and local rides.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:46 PM   #84
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:53 PM   #85
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I have a solution for the whole gas left in the hose thing for you guys that have to run higher octane fuels: Just pump a few gallons out onto the ground. Then you are good to go!

As for me I am just happy I bought a bike that is pleased as punch to run the crappiest fuel available.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:59 PM   #86
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ok so why not justru cheap fuel and add a bit of octance boost so you dont have to worry about what comes out of the pump. i guess im lucky bike runs the same on any grade.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:12 PM   #87
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Quote:
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ok so why not justru cheap fuel and add a bit of octance boost so you dont have to worry about what comes out of the pump. i guess im lucky bike runs the same on any grade.
Not a good idea. Octane boosters are just ethanol (unless you add race fuel to your tank). You don't want to add ethanol to gas that may already be 10% ethanol, anyway.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:43 PM   #88
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My bike says to use 91 octane or higher right on the side of the tank. I noticed that when I tried to use 87 when gas was even more expensive, it ran like . I figure if you fill up with 93 and there's still a few pints of 87 in the hose, it'll all even up to be 91+ after the 4-5 gallons or so my bike takes. I usually get gas at Shell anyways, and I think that generally they have the triple or quadruple hose pumps that have Premium, Mid, Regular, and Diesel.

In DFW I know that at some 7-11s they have penta or Hexa-hosed pumps that actually have 5 different grades of gas plus diesel. Pretty crazy.

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Old 12-06-2011, 10:37 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinball View Post
.............
All the EPA says is that in certain areas, gasoline has to contain some ethanol. I've been unable to locate a reference that says they require a percentage.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011...2011-16459.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/#wn

The federal government pays oil companies about $6 billion a year to blend ethanol into your gasoline; it's been subsidizing ethanol for 33 years now.

Myers says ethanol and gas are mixed in the trucks' cargo tanks, earning whoever owns the fuel a "blending credit" worth 45 cents for every gallon of ethanol.
ethanol-industry-torn-over-losing-subsidy-billions
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:55 PM   #90
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fuels/renewablefuels/regulations

epa-pushes-ethanol-on-american-consumers/
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:01 PM   #91
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There was a Lamborghini in our install bay a while back that showed 95 as a recommended fuel rating. Hope the European ratings are higher, otherwise he's screwed.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:11 PM   #92
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Nice 45 page PDF with no reference to a page number. I skimmed the first few pages, & around page 4, I saw "10% ethanol or less," which tells me there us no requirement to use 10%. It talks mostly about E15, which is recommended, but there is no requirement to produce it, and labeling requirements for ethanol blend fuels.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:15 PM   #93
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Quote:
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There was a Lamborghini in our install bay a while back that showed 95 as a recommended fuel rating. Hope the European ratings are higher, otherwise he's screwed.
He has the money to mix 93 octane with race fuel to make up the difference. I may be wrong, but I think I've seen quarts of 100+ octane at Motorcycles Unlimited. Maybe the cans were just ethanol-free. Have to ask Patrick.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:23 PM   #94
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When there is a high end car fueling up, I will get behind them and top off even if I only went 50 miles
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:25 PM   #95
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Quote:
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....How about driving to the gas station and watching for someone to fillup with super...then run to the pump and fill gas cans..
I will do this all day long. I have time!
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:26 PM   #96
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I thinking he just ran on premium. I'm pretty sure it was a Euro standard. Was just funny to see the picture of a gas pump with "95" stamped next to it.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
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I thinking he just ran on premium. I'm pretty sure it was a Euro standard. Was just funny to see the picture of a gas pump with "95" stamped next to it.
Yeah, but it all comes out of the same hose. Do you think the gas station is going to flush the hose between fill ups' ?
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:55 PM   #98
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Quote:
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I thinking he just ran on premium. I'm pretty sure it was a Euro standard. Was just funny to see the picture of a gas pump with "95" stamped next to it.
Did a quick look, & it seems Lambos are detuned to run on 93 octane...or whatever the highest grade is in the area in which the car is intended to be sold.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:02 AM   #99
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Quote:
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Did a quick look, & it seems Lambos are detuned to run on 93 octane...or whatever the highest grade is in the area in which the car is intended to be sold.
How have you been Pinball? And true that to your post. How else would they make their money? Special tool required to change anything! Take car to dealer so they can rape you.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:16 AM   #100
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This thread fails for the most part!
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