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Old 12-06-2011, 01:24 AM   #1
CraigRR
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Fueling up at the pump.

Just thought of this while enjoying a Budwiser.. I always use super or 93 octaine at the pump, but that hose is kind of long. How do I know if the person in front of me used 87 octaine, and I am waisting my money buying super for a half of a tank of 87? Should I just buy 87 and use an octaine booster???
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:41 AM   #2
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I read an article somewhere, a long time ago, that said the difference between 87 and 93 was almost naught, due to the altitude of Houston. No clue if it's true or not. I notice no difference on my tiny little TwoFiddy.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:15 AM   #3
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Plus the other 40 feet of hose below the ground.
You just paid for the next guy's full tank of 93 super octane., bro.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:50 AM   #4
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Agreed. My father owned a gas station. Back when they had regular and ethyl. One guy would fill 'r up with ethyl or what he called high test and another guy came in right after and filled up. As soon as ARCO went to new pumps with only one line, the second guy would drive off and Dad always said, "that guy just got a bargain." kuz he just got a few gallons of high test for the price of regular.
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:07 AM   #5
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I read about this not too long ago on cbrforum.com/

From The Wall Street Journal:

Q: I ride a motorcycle with a typical three to four gallon gas tank. I ride where fuel stations are farther apart, so I fill up when the tank is still half full. The bike requires premium fuel, and doesn't run well on lower octanes. If the previous customer was pumping regular fuel, I assume the refueling hose is still full of regular fuel, perhaps a couple of gallons. This would mean I'm initially getting a mix instead of pure premium fuel. Is this a genuine concern, or does the system have a mechanism for evacuating the gas pump hose between uses?
-- Paul Kowacki,
Orange Mass.
Associated Press


A: It is a genuine concern, but one that motorcyclists tend to appreciate more than car drivers. According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel. So when you pump a couple gallons of 93-octane premium after the previous customer pumped 87-octane regular, your fuel load would be diluted (not to mention overpriced).
This is more important to motorcyclists because bikes have smaller fuel tanks and a lower tolerance for low-octane gas compared with most cars. I have found that high-performance motorcycles designed to burn premium fuel run poorly on regular. They generally do not have the complex engine-control systems that allow cars to run on fuels of varying octane ratings.
I don't think diluting your premium fuel with a little regular will harm your motorcycle, especially if you always select the highest octane rating available. However, next time you're filling up you may want to get in line behind the driver with the highest-performance car in the station.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:21 AM   #6
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I would think that if this is true this would be open to a class action lawsuit. As a consumer paying a premium for premium and getting the lower grade (which you are not expecting) is similar to a bait and switch scenario. Any lawyers here that would add some good commentary or lets get a schematic on how those pumps work. I would imagine that internally the components come together from different grades of gas and it is turned off internally. Example go to the pump get some gas and turn the pump off. If you squeeze the nozzle not much gas comes out. I have a difficult time believing that it would be more than an oz or two.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/gas-pump2.htm
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:06 AM   #7
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Most has stations will still have the price and amount of gas the last person bought... I'm good with math and can usually tell whether or not premium was used... If your not good w math in your head... Bust out your calculator on your phone
Fuel price = total price/ gallons
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:18 AM   #8
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I think most Shell stations show the price per gallon of the last purchase so no math required
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:38 AM   #9
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Higher octane is really only needed when running a pressurized engine, i.e. a turbo or a supercharger.

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Old 12-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #10
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Higher octane is really only needed when running a pressurized engine, i.e. a turbo or a supercharger.

GJ
So, for a car if the there's a label on the fuel filler and a recommendation in the owner's manual to use premium, and the engine knocks using regular unleaded, should you just ignore it?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:20 AM   #11
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if you wanted to, ride around all the pumps and divide the price by the number of gallons dispensed. you'll magically come up with the fuel price, which you can compare to the display or big sign up front; that way you can determine with high probability the last fuel that was pumped.
wont work 100% accurately if price change

math, how does it work?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:21 AM   #12
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Read an article in SSB where they tested a bike using all 3 grades of pump fuel and race fuel in a regular street bike engine. They ran it on the dyno to see if there were any performance gains/losses from the different grades of fuel. To everyone's surprise, there was no significant differences with the dyno curves between 87, 89 or 93. The race fuel actually produced less power. They did stress to follow whatever the manufacturer recommends but if the bike doesn't have any knocking issues, you could, in theory, run any grade of fuel and be OK.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:25 AM   #13
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What about the pumps that have individual nozzles for each octane..?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason View Post
Higher octane is really only needed when running a pressurized engine, i.e. a turbo or a supercharger.

GJ
My direct port injection Lexus begs to differ.
Over 11:1 C/R factory.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
Read an article in SSB where they tested a bike using all 3 grades of pump fuel and race fuel in a regular street bike engine. They ran it on the dyno to see if there were any performance gains/losses from the different grades of fuel. To everyone's surprise, there was no significant differences with the dyno curves between 87, 89 or 93. The race fuel actually produced less power. They did stress to follow whatever the manufacturer recommends but if the bike doesn't have any knocking issues, you could, in theory, run any grade of fuel and be OK.
Right, there is no benefit for using higher octane than what is recommended, but if you use lower than what's recommended you could potentially damage the engine.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
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My direct port injection Lexus begs to differ.
Over 11:1 C/R factory.
my challenger too. runs/sounds like with 87.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchdoctor575 View Post
my challenger too. runs/sounds like with 87.
Hey! That thing got a hemi?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
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my challenger too. runs/sounds like with 87.

And I call bullshit on the 87-93 "runs the same" line.
I filled up with half tank of 87 before I realize it one time, and my tank avg went down like 4 mpg. Same weekly routine, 95% highway run to work (traveling downtown OUT to Katy)
YMMV
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:40 AM   #19
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You should pretty much run the lowest octane fuel you can without pre-ignition or a drop in mileage, anyway. All the higher octane means is that the fuel can be put under higher pressure before it detonates without spark, which is why high compression engines usually require premium.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason View Post
Higher octane is really only needed when running a pressurized engine, i.e. a turbo or a supercharger.

GJ
static compression too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator View Post
My direct port injection Lexus begs to differ.
Over 11:1 C/R factory.
if by "direct port" you mean direct injection, then 11:1 isn't as high as it is in a classic indirect injection engine. You can, very likely, run 87 in this motor with no problems whatsoever.

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my challenger too. runs/sounds like with 87.
I believe that motor retards timing based on knock sensors which is why it runs slightly poorly.
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