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Old 12-02-2011, 12:17 PM   #21
spartandude
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You may want to talk to Patrick my experience is on 1950's tech small block chevy's. So take everything I say with a grain of salt. Still the reason stated for not being able to swap that part is pretty accurate and I would never ever want a cast aluminum welded piece back for the same reason (not as bad as cast iron, I know, but I would still be nervous).

When I worked on small blocks the crank shaft main bearings are held on with caps that must be "line honed" to make sure everything has the proper runout/alignment with everything else in this fast spinning component (crank shaft in my case). We did this when rebuilding the engines. See if Patrick has ever heard of line honing cam bearing mounts. If they can then my recommendation would be to have them buy a junk head, remove that part, check the material condition, and line hone the sucker to your head (everything bolted up and then honed). Don't let anyone do this who doesn't know what I'm talking about as it would be really easy to screw it up even more. The material condition is important as manufacturers have a tolerance zone that will work. Line honing removes material and you don't want to go outside of the engineering limit. If this was my bike that is the way I would go (well after I talked to Patrick). That part should not experience wear and the vibration fatigue should not be an issue even if the engine it came from was mistreated so you SHOULD be okay with a used part.

Check machine shops near circle track race tracks or any shop that is experienced with rebuilding engine machining.

Good luck.


edti: all, CHECK YOUR VALVES!!!! These are not like the ones in your car. If they get out of tolerance they can ruin your valves. You wouldn't skip oil changes don't skip valve adjustments.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:54 PM   #22
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Just got off the phone with them... Apparently, the "first" guy the choose had "his welder break" the "second" guy is coming later to "take a look at it" and should have an answer today or tomorrow. They said if it doesn't work out, they're going to have to get another head.

I wonder I could have a machine shop machine a new part out of billet aluminum or something? I'da imagine it would be quite expensive....

So, I was reading that the heads of the Versys and the Ninja 650/er650n might be slightly different beyond the camshafts, I was reading that the Versys has slightly lower compression. So a direct swap of the Versys head with a good take off from a Ninja and then swapping the camshafts might be impossible. So it looks like that the shop might be stuck buying that 1200$ head assembly after all....

I have yet to see any 'junk' head from a Versys, Ninja or Naked Ninja. They mostly seem to be good take offs from a bike that was smashed early in life. I'da imagine that bike wrecking yards are similar. If you were going to buy a head I think you would want the head swapped with the part specific to it and not just the part. We are lacking in machine shops in the brazosport area.
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:19 PM   #23
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartandude View Post
edti: all, CHECK YOUR VALVES!!!! These are not like the ones in your car. If they get out of tolerance they can ruin your valves. You wouldn't skip oil changes don't skip valve adjustments.
^^ what he said. its just a feeler gauge to check clearances. if they're in tolerance then put the valve cover back on and you're done.
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:32 PM   #25
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IMO I would not weld a cam cap.
The cam caps are line bored to the head. Welding it will not maintain that clearance.

You basically have two options;
Option one: find a used cam cap, install it, plasti-gauge it and hope for good clearances.
Option two: replace the head and with a good used head / caps.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:01 PM   #26
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LOL, called them yesterday, they said the welder didn't even look at it yet. Also, the owner (who is the guy I've been dealing with) went on vacation starting yesterday. The guy left in charge said he had full authority to do whatever. But it's pretty up that the owners of the shop mess up my vacation, and then go on theirs. Hopefully, better news Monday afternoon.

I think they are leaking towards changing the head. I've found them for 1200$ or so, however they said it was going to cost them 1500$, I'm sure it costs them gaskets and what not. Today will be the 6th day without my bike, I'm having withdrawals, even if the weather is a bit sucky.

I had a last minute change of heart and did decide to go to Austin without my bike. I'm fairly certain I made it there in less than 3 hours, probably 2 hours 40 minutes. And back in the same amount of time. Made about the same time I would've on my bike, however it took about 25 gallons of premium fuel. As opposed to like.... 4 or 5 gallons in my bike.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:06 PM   #27
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Let's see.... if my math is correct.... Round trip from Houston and Austin is about 325 miles (not counting the time you spend around in the city) 325 miles divided by 25 gallons or so of fuel.... That's about 13 miles per gallon.

I would says that is terrible, but considering it was 80mph in a lifted 4x4 with 35" tires and a 4.0L V6, that's not half bad. I'm going back to 33"s after these tires though...
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:11 PM   #28
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You should see if they are insured for things like this. If so they maybe can get you new versus welded.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #29
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Fwiw I have an entire low mileage 650 engine I'll sell for $650.00.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:33 PM   #30
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650R or the versys 650
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:38 PM   #31
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Oh, also what color is it and if its a 650R do you have a computer for it?
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:54 PM   #32
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Well, they called me up and had me look at the repaired part. The welder did an impressive job.

So against all better judgement here i approved it. They gave me a guarantee against failure on the part. Bike should be done by thursday.

Guess ill wait to see how it runs then. The mechanic said he wouldn't hesitate to ride it himself. I concurred based on what i saw. Looked liked they did a good job, and i dont have to wait for a new head from kawasaki.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:19 PM   #33
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Oh, also what color is it and if its a 650R do you have a computer for it?
650R, what's left of it is black.
I do have the ECU.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Well, they called me up and had me look at the repaired part. The welder did an impressive job.

So against all better judgement here i approved it. They gave me a guarantee against failure on the part. Bike should be done by thursday.

Guess ill wait to see how it runs then. The mechanic said he wouldn't hesitate to ride it himself. I concurred based on what i saw. Looked liked they did a good job, and i dont have to wait for a new head from kawasaki.
I would get the guarantee in writing
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:26 PM   #35
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:41 PM   #36
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I'll second Patrick on the welding after it's been removed from the head. I don't know about this engine but I've worked in machine shops. So for what it's worth-
IMO
If the cap is welded when it's not mounted to the head - IT WILL WARP. No point in worring about tolerance after it's warped. Welding is a waste of time unless they can do it while it's on the head. Even if it's on a non-critical area like a bolt hole boss. All that heat is going to make it move and a piece that size is going to move considerable. The cap will need to be re-bored after it's mounted just like what originally was done at the factory.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:56 PM   #37
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lol, went over there today to pickup my bike because it was supposed to be done by yesterday afternoon. They said the mechanic called in sick today so it wasn't done. What a joke....

Lets see if they can dodge me for two more days before their weekend Sunday and Monday.
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:45 PM   #38
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2aceb85b

Well, I got my bike back today! They finished it up and got it back to me. The owner took it out and ran it. Then I took it out and ran it pretty hard. With lots of accel and decel. No problems. I guess I'll just wait and see how it goes long term. Next week or so I'm going to take it all apart and inspect the part when I replace the spark plug o-rings and valve cover seal.

Next stop, brake fluid drain and refill!
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:09 PM   #39
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:54 PM   #40
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When you get into it take some pics of the repair and post them up.
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