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Old 10-29-2011, 01:23 AM   #21
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Obviously the answer is something like a D220 or BT023 or Pilot road etc. Not a tire like a 2ct etc.
Two questions though:
A: Why would a pilot power last you only 2500 miles? Thats what i get from a Michelin Power Race tire. On Pilot Power's and Bt16's I get at least 6k miles. A more touring tire like above would get you in the 9k's me thinks.
B: I see now one recommendation and one user with Bt16's in front and Bt23 in the back.
What's the logic behind that? a more slippery tire in the back to save some miles? Or is your bike behaving better with this combination Bevo?
Tires are designed to work as a set, both in dry (heat patterns, thrust, cornering and braking characteristics) and especially in wet conditions where the water from the front is channeled in a specific way to aid the rear tire's traction. BT16 and BT23 have a different tread pattern and different compounds and characteristics. The fact that they are the same brand makes absolutely no difference.
Few weeks ago I was at GSS and left my Michelin Power Race back (no tire guy showed up, I was planning to change it) and used a newer (1 track day) BT003 up front. End result, I was fishtailing in half the turns since obviously the two tires have different characteristics.
I don't know why 2 different tires would be recommended .................someone enlighten me please as this goes against everything I have read..........and lately experienced!
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaXoS View Post
Obviously the answer is something like a D220 or BT023 or Pilot road etc. Not a tire like a 2ct etc.
Two questions though:
A: Why would a pilot power last you only 2500 miles? Thats what i get from a Michelin Power Race tire. On Pilot Power's and Bt16's I get at least 6k miles. A more touring tire like above would get you in the 9k's me thinks.
B: I see now one recommendation and one user with Bt16's in front and Bt23 in the back.
What's the logic behind that? a more slippery tire in the back to save some miles? Or is your bike behaving better with this combination Bevo?
Tires are designed to work as a set, both in dry (heat patterns, thrust, cornering and braking characteristics) and especially in wet conditions where the water from the front is channeled in a specific way to aid the rear tire's traction. BT16 and BT23 have a different tread pattern and different compounds and characteristics. The fact that they are the same brand makes absolutely no difference.
Few weeks ago I was at GSS and left my Michelin Power Race back (no tire guy showed up, I was planning to change it) and used a newer (1 track day) BT003 up front. End result, I was fishtailing in half the turns since obviously the two tires have different characteristics.
I don't know why 2 different tires would be recommended .................someone enlighten me please as this goes against everything I have read..........and lately experienced!
I've run different tires in front and bike a lot, along with several people I know.

The handling characteristics of a profile with a slimmer profile and stickier compounds up front improve turn in and front contact, whereas the broader and firmer rear experience less wear.

Typically a rear tire wears faster than a front tire on any bike due to load under acceleration. This helps to balance the wear. Example: If you get 9k miles on a bt016 in front, and 9k miles on a bt023 in the rear, you change them together. If you get 9k miles on a bt016 front, however, you probably only get 5k on a bt016 rear.

Since very few riders push the limits of a bt023 to begin with, it is very unlikely that they will push the limits of a bt023 but yet remain in the limits of the bt016 causing them to wreck due to an unmatched pair.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokati View Post
I've run different tires in front and bike a lot, along with several people I know.

The handling characteristics of a profile with a slimmer profile and stickier compounds up front improve turn in and front contact, whereas the broader and firmer rear experience less wear.

Typically a rear tire wears faster than a front tire on any bike due to load under acceleration. This helps to balance the wear. Example: If you get 9k miles on a bt016 in front, and 9k miles on a bt023 in the rear, you change them together. If you get 9k miles on a bt016 front, however, you probably only get 5k on a bt016 rear.

Since very few riders push the limits of a bt023 to begin with, it is very unlikely that they will push the limits of a bt023 but yet remain in the limits of the bt016 causing them to wreck due to an unmatched pair.
I understand that you balance the wear, but in the sake of an unbalanced bike? My front is stickier (that's not necessarily a plus.....see my last track day lol) and my back lasts longer? (means more slippery than the front generally speaking)
I would think that the engineers of Michelin, Bridgestone...etc have thought of that issue, when they made say the BT023. Yet it continues to be this way, so there is a reason that they make a front BT023 as well.
This is no news to me, just trying to understand it.
Using same types usually yields to a 2:1 ratio (changing front and rear tires). Does using different types actually result in exactly 1:1 ratio of when they need replacement? Because if not, you are screwed again, you can't have an aging front with 8k miles and a brand new rear cause you may get another 2k miles from the front. It will reserve what you talked about before.
Let me not go to the wet conditions arguement again and how the front works with the specified back tread since I elaborated on the previous post.
Lets talk about warming the tires? The front is stickier but takes longer to warm up, where the more touring tire reaches operating temperatures quicker. Which means now that your rear is more grippy than the front. When more time goes by.....then the front becomes more grippy than the back........ again, there is logic in the engineering of those tires otherwise Michelin, Pirelli...etc would make a tire that lasts the same front and back.
That is why you see superbikes in Europe with BT23's and alike (front and back) for people that commute to work everyday. Distances are not too big and they want a tire that performs well in slower speeds and heats and last longer and can respond to different pavement conditions quickly, but I don't see them switching types front and back.
The only thing that kind of made sense is that the people that use different types never reach the limits, so they would have never known anyway and they save money....but that's wrong
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:52 AM   #24
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A regular Pilot Power on a light bike like the SV should get at least 5K out of a rear.

Pilot Road 2/3
BT023

My personal fav Dunlop Roadsmart 2.. my bike eats rears and it went 8K

A Q2 rear lasted 2400 miles for comparison.
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:10 AM   #25
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Along with what Lokati said tire pressures being checked before riding and set properly for the ride make a huge difference also. And rider style.
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Old 10-29-2011, 08:32 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
A regular Pilot Power on a light bike like the SV should get at least 5K out of a rear.

Pilot Road 2/3
BT023

My personal fav Dunlop Roadsmart 2.. my bike eats rears and it went 8K

A Q2 rear lasted 2400 miles for comparison.
My wife's FZ came with Roadsmarts OEM. 3500 miles and the rear is just now starting to show some wear...looks like it'll last 15k miles. I love those tires.
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:09 AM   #27
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Got the BT016 up front/BT023 on the rear as well...great tires...not expensive
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaXoS View Post
I understand that you balance the wear, but in the sake of an unbalanced bike? My front is stickier (that's not necessarily a plus.....see my last track day lol) and my back lasts longer? (means more slippery than the front generally speaking)
I would think that the engineers of Michelin, Bridgestone...etc have thought of that issue, when they made say the BT023. Yet it continues to be this way, so there is a reason that they make a front BT023 as well.
This is no news to me, just trying to understand it.
Using same types usually yields to a 2:1 ratio (changing front and rear tires). Does using different types actually result in exactly 1:1 ratio of when they need replacement? Because if not, you are screwed again, you can't have an aging front with 8k miles and a brand new rear cause you may get another 2k miles from the front. It will reserve what you talked about before.
Let me not go to the wet conditions arguement again and how the front works with the specified back tread since I elaborated on the previous post.
Lets talk about warming the tires? The front is stickier but takes longer to warm up, where the more touring tire reaches operating temperatures quicker. Which means now that your rear is more grippy than the front. When more time goes by.....then the front becomes more grippy than the back........ again, there is logic in the engineering of those tires otherwise Michelin, Pirelli...etc would make a tire that lasts the same front and back.
That is why you see superbikes in Europe with BT23's and alike (front and back) for people that commute to work everyday. Distances are not too big and they want a tire that performs well in slower speeds and heats and last longer and can respond to different pavement conditions quickly, but I don't see them switching types front and back.
The only thing that kind of made sense is that the people that use different types never reach the limits, so they would have never known anyway and they save money....but that's wrong
I dunno, you just seem "against the idea" without any real logic. But just some perceived notion that unbalanced grip is terrible.

Tire manufacturers sell tires in sets because that's what the consumer wants.

Consumers long ago found out that just because something is sold in manner X, that doesnt mean that manner X is the best choice.

So speaking from experience, running mismatched tires has NEEEEVER created a problem. Especially, and I do mean especially, on street conditions. There is nowhere in Houston where you can safely push the limits of todays modern tire beyond the point at which mismatched tires cause issues.

As for track days? That depends on the rider, but anyone going out there trying to push record breaking times on a bt023 to begin with is clearly riding beyond their own skill level.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:37 AM   #29
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i liked discount too til i discovered two wheeled toys on down the road at hwy 3
they about $50 less. a sponsor here too
i will check them out next time i need rubbers
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:21 PM   #30
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I am running bridgestone bt-023s, I got 12k out of the last set.

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Old 10-29-2011, 01:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
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I dunno, you just seem "against the idea" without any real logic. But just some perceived notion that unbalanced grip is terrible.
YEP I am ( I think I explained the logic, different heat patterns, handling characteristics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokati View Post

Tire manufacturers sell tires in sets because that's what the consumer wants.
.
Really? Not because of research and development?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokati View Post

Consumers long ago found out that just because something is sold in manner X, that doesnt mean that manner X is the best choice.
.
Seems like consumer wants to save money disregarding other possible factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokati View Post
So speaking from experience, running mismatched tires has NEEEEVER created a problem. Especially, and I do mean especially, on street conditions. There is nowhere in Houston where you can safely push the limits of todays modern tire beyond the point at which mismatched tires cause issues.
.
And I hope it never does. And because of the Houston condition you speak of I do not understand why not use a BT023 front and back.

Ride safe my friend
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:35 PM   #32
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Probably irrelevant but pro racers mismatch tire styles all the time. If I'm not mistaken, the bt023 and bt016 both have the same tread patterns, just as the Q2 and road/sportsmart series. Essentially, they seem to be harder variations of the same tread patterns. Now, if you were to run a Pilot Pure front and a br023 rear, I could see where you would have issues as they are totally different designs all around. I could be totally wrong but it seems, in theory, that hardness (mileage) I'd the main difference among like manufacturer tires of Tue same tread design.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:52 PM   #33
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I ride everyday Bridgestone BT-023's are the best so far. Go to Motorcycles Unlimited they will help you out.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:13 PM   #34
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I've been getting my tires from discount motorcycle toys on spencer for many yrs. Last time I bought a set for my cbr. I got a MISMATCHED set of bt016 front & a bt023 rear. 346.00 installed. I've even done 2 lvl 1 track days at MSRH on them. running times from 2:15 down to 1:58! they never slipped at all. Except when I was backing it in to sugar and spice. And yes the bt 016 and the bt 023 have different tread patterns. The 023 has more groves on the sides for better wet weather traction in the corners.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:12 PM   #35
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OMG! I looked at my bike, and it has a DIFFERENT sized tire in the front than the back! ZOMFG!! I have to go run out and get a 120 tire in the rears!!! MISMATCHED tires is bad! I don't want to die! I have 3 kids!
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Old 10-30-2011, 02:55 AM   #36
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Yamaha FJR1300 with 205/55-R17 next to our trailer on last December's MSRH ............ he said he was expecting 40,000 miles out of it and it cost less than a BT023.
I rest my case.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaXoS View Post
Obviously the answer is something like a D220 or BT023 or Pilot road etc. Not a tire like a 2ct etc.
Two questions though:
A: Why would a pilot power last you only 2500 miles? Thats what i get from a Michelin Power Race tire. On Pilot Power's and Bt16's I get at least 6k miles. A more touring tire like above would get you in the 9k's me thinks.
B: I see now one recommendation and one user with Bt16's in front and Bt23 in the back.
What's the logic behind that? a more slippery tire in the back to save some miles? Or is your bike behaving better with this combination Bevo?
Tires are designed to work as a set, both in dry (heat patterns, thrust, cornering and braking characteristics) and especially in wet conditions where the water from the front is channeled in a specific way to aid the rear tire's traction. BT16 and BT23 have a different tread pattern and different compounds and characteristics. The fact that they are the same brand makes absolutely no difference.
Few weeks ago I was at GSS and left my Michelin Power Race back (no tire guy showed up, I was planning to change it) and used a newer (1 track day) BT003 up front. End result, I was fishtailing in half the turns since obviously the two tires have different characteristics.
I don't know why 2 different tires would be recommended .................someone enlighten me please as this goes against everything I have read..........and lately experienced!
1. Patrick recommended this set up
2. Instead of buying two rears for every front tire, it's now one to one, meaning the front and rear wear out at the same time.
3. The BT023 has sticky shoulders. I tracked this set up at GSS and "bubble gummed" them all the way to the sidewalls. They work well for me.
4. I ride everyday unless it's raining so I want more mileage from my rear tire.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:10 PM   #38
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Has anyone ever tried any other brand, if so what tires and how did you like them. Thinking of buying a pair of Shinko's.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:57 PM   #39
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Was looking for something longer lasting. Have the 2CT front / pilot road 2 rear on one bike. Lost count of how many I have but wear is extremely reasonable and I haven't been disappointed with tire performance yet. For tire pressure, I keep it around 38 rear, 34 front. Has worked well for me. Might try this setup on the other bike too.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:24 AM   #40
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I put 11k miles on a pilot road 2 rear once
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