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Old 10-25-2011, 11:13 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
I would think an educated, person such as yourself would understand the benefits of quality instruction. Which IMO should facilitate learning and inspire an individual, as well as protecting the student from harm (mistakes).


and..
an "excellent" artist would NOT use crappy clay for HIS project.
You keep ignoring my questions as to your personal experience.


Again your viewpoint is naive. Track instructors don't have much choice as to their students. They get whomever signs up. The same for any race school that an ordinary rider would attend. Instructors do well to work within the confines of that rider's abilities, but it's not a catch-all system.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:14 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by zerobounds View Post
Dunno about you guys but I'm gonna start wrecking more often.
We're starting up mini nights again this week. Carry your flyweight out there with us so you can wreck up the minis. If you're going to do it, that's the place to start.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:18 AM   #103
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Dunno about you guys but I'm gonna start wrecking more often.
What? You gonna sign up for one of my Parade Laps rides?
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:20 AM   #104
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What? You gonna sign up for one of my Parade Laps rides?
Will you be providing the work trucks or do we just have to hope they'll be around?
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:23 AM   #105
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Quote:
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Will you be providing the work trucks or do we just have to hope they'll be around?
I'm sure we'll find something to crash into
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:29 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
You keep ignoring my questions as to your personal experience.

Again your viewpoint is naive. Track instructors don't have much choice as to their students. They get whomever signs up. The same for any race school that an ordinary rider would attend. Instructors do well to work within the confines of that rider's abilities, but it's not a catch-all system.
I didnt ignore them, I have chosen not to "name drop".
many experts are available to help the beginner rider as well as the advanced, whether it be with tires, motor, suspension, riding, tracks, there is NO one person that "knows it all"

and what does an instructors lack of ability to choose his students, have to do with the topic, "Does it take crashing to make you faster"
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:43 AM   #107
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I didnt ignore them, I have chosen not to "name drop".
many experts are available to help the beginner rider as well as the advanced, whether it be with tires, motor, suspension, riding, tracks, there is NO one person that "knows it all"
Now you're just diluting the reasoning. I simply asked what your level of personal experience was. Everyone here has different perspectives based on their relationship with the sport/hobby. I speak from the point of a relatively new rider in his second season of trackdays and hopefully fledgeling racer. Tony and others from multiple seasons in the CMRA. Some have offered up their opinions based on only one or two trackdays.

All of them are valid as there is no single truth to be proven here. I do think it's important to understand what experience level the people are speaking from. It helps people who are reading understand how experience may play a factor in these opinions.

It'd be great to get a few instructors in here to talk about their experiences.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
and what does an instructors lack of ability to choose his students, have to do with the topic, "Does it take crashing to make you faster"
It was a reply to your statement.

"and..
an "excellent" artist would NOT use crappy clay for HIS project"

That's all.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:57 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
Again your viewpoint is naive. Track instructors don't have much choice as to their students. They get whomever signs up. The same for any race school that an ordinary rider would attend. Instructors do well to work within the confines of that rider's abilities, but it's not a catch-all system.
Although this doesn't really relate to the topic at hand, you choose what schools you want instruction from. Just make sure they have quality instructors.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:58 AM   #109
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Although this doesn't really relate to the topic at hand, you choose what schools you want instruction from. Just make sure they have quality instructors.
Of course. That was my point. The student chooses the instructor moreso than the other way around.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:02 PM   #110
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It's entertaining that you can't engage me without being somewhat of an anymore. Butthurt lasts a long time in ArtistMarty world. Anyways.

I use what everyone else uses I imagine. Progression of skill and comfort in relation to lap times.

The limits I was speaking about was the feedback the bike was giving me that I didn't respect at the time. From pushing an unprepared bike on a green track to riding passed my personal skill limits. Each one has taught me a valuable lesson. Mostly a good warning bell in my head that I'm riding too close to a bad edge in one way or the other. It's not perfect, but it's what my experiences thus far have given me. Four big bike wrecks and dozens of mini-tard wrecks later of course.

With all your years of riding you mean you don't know when a bike is telling you the tires are losing grip or the rear shock is bottoming causing you to run wide on corner exit? That the front is possibly sprung too stiff and pushing in the corners instead of reacting normally? I'm not speaking of any kind of magic or rare racer knowledge. In the beginning I didn't know all of those little bits of feedback the bike is giving. As I said before. Some of us learn the hard way.
Whats the point of "pushing the limits" when you're nowhere near the line? If you really want to push the limits of your bike and see what it can do and hopefully progress as fast as possible you may want to consider attending a school that provides Drills rather than "open practice".
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:07 PM   #111
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Whats the point of "pushing the limits" when you're nowhere near the line? If you really want to push the limits of your bike and see what it can do and hopefully progress as fast as possible you may want to consider attending a school that provides Drills rather than "open practice".
The line as in race line or the line as in the edge of something?

I'd love to attend a race school of that sort, but as of yet have not had the opportunity.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:11 PM   #112
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...And in a sense, I've hit a block because of that. I've had several friends go down recently, all of which are right around my pace. I'd rather stay at my pace than get faster and go down. That just comes down to personality. I'm very competitive, but not at the expense of my $10,000 motorcycle being totaled...lol. Maybe that was my first mistake. Buying a brand new bike and then eventually taking it to the track...instead of buying a cheap track bike.

Maybe once my current bike is paid off (c'mon May!) and I get another street bike, I'll allow myself to push harder. Until then, I'll keep pushing myself a little bit at a time and using the money I save from not crashing to do more track days! -Cody
This is informative, because our perspective on crashing depends on where we are with ourselves and our bikes. If, like Cody, we don't want to trash our street ride (and that's what we have to take to the track), or, like Obed, don't want to take the chances with our bodies, then our feelings about crashing logically follow, because getting faster is not necessarily the top priority. More important is not trashing ourselves or the bike.

Now again, I don't think anyone says, "Hey, I'm going to trash my bike or my body to get faster." But those people who have made getting faster the top priority at the track have to accept that those are the risks we are taking as we push ourselves and our equipment to be better. Most of us prepare our bikes with race bodywork, case covers, and modular break-away rearsets, prepare ourselves with the best safety equipment. Most of us also take instruction seriously and wherever we can.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:35 PM   #113
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where around this part of Texas are any schools that have drills instead of open practice....
I have only riden with two track day groups and neither of them have drills...
even in novice level you have rides with instructors in groups in the morning and then after lunch you are on your own with intructors riding in the total group looking for folks in trouble or looking at folks who have asked for specific help.. but neither group did any drills as such...and in my opinion one trackday organization did a much better job of it than the other...
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:06 PM   #114
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where around this part of Texas are any schools that have drills instead of open practice....
I have only riden with two track day groups and neither of them have drills...
even in novice level you have rides with instructors in groups in the morning and then after lunch you are on your own with intructors riding in the total group looking for folks in trouble or looking at folks who have asked for specific help.. but neither group did any drills as such...and in my opinion one trackday organization did a much better job of it than the other...
http://www.typhoonroadracingacademy.com/
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:07 PM   #115
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where around this part of Texas are any schools that have drills instead of open practice....
I have only riden with two track day groups and neither of them have drills...
even in novice level you have rides with instructors in groups in the morning and then after lunch you are on your own with intructors riding in the total group looking for folks in trouble or looking at folks who have asked for specific help.. but neither group did any drills as such...and in my opinion one trackday organization did a much better job of it than the other...
I can't speak for other schools, but if you sign up for the "Beginner's Course" with Lone Star Track Days (not one of our Friday, pre-CMRA race days) we will give you drills. We start with a round robin session, to give students an idea about the line, and then do different drills each session ("no-brakes" drill, body position drills, relaxed hand/elbows drills, etc). By the afternoon the students are allowed to free ride to apply the lessons from earlier in the day. This is all done under an instructor's observation, and we try to keep it to two students per instructor, and also get some video of each student.

Depending on the student's needs and desires, we do a similar programs in the Advanced Course. We run the advanced course in our Intermediate group (but will bump up to Advanced if the student has the pace), and also do this class in the "Street" group on the Fridays before CMRA events. Shoot me a PM if you want more information. Hopefully our 2012 schedule will be up soon.

Last edited by unswift; 10-25-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:10 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switch View Post
this right here.

if you wanna break into racing, go for a mini. cheap and stupid fun way to race. you could also do big bike endurance (BBE) with a couple of friends. you will learn a lot watching the super fast guys pass you (over and over), and its still a race environment.

good post, tony.
what does one need to get into this... i want to start...
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:12 PM   #117
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I may need to start taking advanced courses soon. I feel like I have one major breakthrough left I can achieve on my own, at which point the advanced schools can offer me some value.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:20 PM   #118
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what does one need to get into this... i want to start...
Right now there is (what looks to me to be) a really well sorted 2009 Ninja 250 on the CMRA MBoard for $3700 (might be posted here too, I haven't checked). Turnkey ready to race. You probably couldn't build your own bike for less.

Take that bike out to GSS and learn to ride it. When you can hold a good consistent line in lightweight class at GSS, take the CMRA class (Lone Star Track Days, Fastline, and other schools offer the class).

Sprint that bike (two races for $90) or better yet, get some friends licensed too, and go endurance racing ($35/hour - best bang for the buck).

Huge fun!
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:34 PM   #119
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Hopefully our 2012 schedule will be up soon.
patiently waiting
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:22 PM   #120
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Quote:
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We wreck, bro. Every single one of those wrecks is a learning experience. Unfortunately some of them only serve to teach others. That you would use Marco's death as an example demonstrates you have no taste, no class, and no grasp of the reality you accept when you toss a leg over a bike.

Of course there are better ways. I haven't met a single rider that prefer he wrecked over saving it. I also haven't met very many who haven't wrecked.
I understand that we wreck, I am pointing out that it does not always make us better. The OP asked does it take crashing to get better, maybe if your a stunter, practice and learning make you better not crashing.

That's like saying knocking up a woman or catching an STD makes you better at having . We all take chances, take precautions, and wear protection but it happens. And if your sleeping with a shitload of random women the odds of that increase, but it's the numerous times and random women that make you better in the sack, not because of the STD or pregnancies.

Note: I never caught an STD but I do have 5 kids
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