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Old 10-24-2011, 03:38 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exalted512 View Post
fify. I shouldve took pictures of his brake pads he took off before the race. Past the wear marker and still asks 'think i can make it today on these'?

haha
-Cody
*broke
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:44 PM   #62
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Quote:
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For me that has been the case. When I was starting to give it gas, I crashed. then 2 years later (yes, two years), I started riding at a good pace again and then bam, 2 crashes. Now I am back to pu$$y status

It seems I am repeating the cycle again, the first time I was frighten while riding, but I had to overcome that fear. Then when I was starting to get faster, I had nightmares the days after a race or a TD, those went for a good while. Then my mindset was in the right place.

Guess, back to square one...again.
You were doing good on the endurance! Helluva way to step back in the game...haha

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*broke
haha, I'd say that's right...the Monday immediately following a race weekend
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:05 PM   #63
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I'll leave the crashing to you guys.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #64
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I understand all of that. I also understand that there is feedback from the bike that I learned first hand that I could never have experienced watching a video. I know the limits of all three of my bikes. I learned them all the hard way. I know the warning signs of when I'm pushing the bike past some limit. Whether it be tires, suspension, track, or rider; the bike gives me feedback on all of those things. The only reason I know where the limits that feedback is describing are at is because I've sailed past them.

I'm not advocating crashing. I'm just pointing out the reality for most of us. I have no particular innate skill for riding. Most of my lessons have been hard ones. Despite valuable and continuing instruction I've dealt with problems that have resulted in crashing. That crashing has taught me many valuable lessons along the way. The most important being that I'm not afraid of it. I've broken bones and damaged bikes, but I reinforced my mental game by removing fear of the unknown.

I've also been told I have an extraordinarily low sense of self preservation so my perspective may be a little warped by that.


stating that you know the limits of your suspension, tires, bike, yourself and even the track,
let me ask,
what specifically have you used to measure and evaluate your progress?
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:33 PM   #65
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stating that you know the limits of your suspension, tires, bike, yourself and even the track,
let me ask,
what specifically have you used to measure and evaluate your progress?
It's called a lap timer.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:38 PM   #66
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Quote:
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stating that you know the limits of your suspension, tires, bike, yourself and even the track,
let me ask,
what specifically have you used to measure and evaluate your progress?
It's entertaining that you can't engage me without being somewhat of an anymore. Butthurt lasts a long time in ArtistMarty world. Anyways.

I use what everyone else uses I imagine. Progression of skill and comfort in relation to lap times.

The limits I was speaking about was the feedback the bike was giving me that I didn't respect at the time. From pushing an unprepared bike on a green track to riding passed my personal skill limits. Each one has taught me a valuable lesson. Mostly a good warning bell in my head that I'm riding too close to a bad edge in one way or the other. It's not perfect, but it's what my experiences thus far have given me. Four big bike wrecks and dozens of mini-tard wrecks later of course.

With all your years of riding you mean you don't know when a bike is telling you the tires are losing grip or the rear shock is bottoming causing you to run wide on corner exit? That the front is possibly sprung too stiff and pushing in the corners instead of reacting normally? I'm not speaking of any kind of magic or rare racer knowledge. In the beginning I didn't know all of those little bits of feedback the bike is giving. As I said before. Some of us learn the hard way.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:39 PM   #67
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Quote:
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It's called a lap timer.
I've had him all chapped in the for a while now. He doesn't know how to express his love so it comes off as aggression.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:36 PM   #68
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It's entertaining that you can't engage me without being somewhat of an anymore. Butthurt lasts a long time in ArtistMarty world. Anyways.

I use what everyone else uses I imagine. Progression of skill and comfort in relation to lap times.

The limits I was speaking about was the feedback the bike was giving me that I didn't respect at the time. From pushing an unprepared bike on a green track to riding passed my personal skill limits. Each one has taught me a valuable lesson. Mostly a good warning bell in my head that I'm riding too close to a bad edge in one way or the other. It's not perfect, but it's what my experiences thus far have given me. Four big bike wrecks and dozens of mini-tard wrecks later of course.

With all your years of riding you mean you don't know when a bike is telling you the tires are losing grip or the rear shock is bottoming causing you to run wide on corner exit? That the front is possibly sprung too stiff and pushing in the corners instead of reacting normally? I'm not speaking of any kind of magic or rare racer knowledge. In the beginning I didn't know all of those little bits of feedback the bike is giving. As I said before. Some of us learn the hard way.


funny you think my question seems asinine and you erroneously think Im wounded from your never ending ridiculous and insulting banter.

I understand you have learned the hard way!
Im was just trying to ask HOW you measure and evaluate your performance or lack thereof?
... you measured and evaluated yourself by yourself?

and by finding the limits (crashing) how exactly did that increase your knowledge?

do you race? and can show a definitive improvement after a crash?

just trying to understand how YOU think crashing actually makes you faster?

I believe people do learn from mistakes,
but I also think people can learn faster and progress farther without those mistakes... and that comes from proper guidance.

to just use careless abandon (extraordinarily low sense of self preservation) with oneself to learn, is pretty dangerous and not something I would be proud of or recommend to others as a learning method.
Especially on a motorcycle!
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:27 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post

funny you think my question seems asinine and you erroneously think Im wounded from your never ending ridiculous and insulting banter.

I understand you have learned the hard way!
Im was just trying to ask HOW you measure and evaluate your performance or lack thereof?
... you measured and evaluated yourself by yourself?

and by finding the limits (crashing) how exactly did that increase your knowledge?

do you race? and can show a definitive improvement after a crash?

just trying to understand how YOU think crashing actually makes you faster?

I believe people do learn from mistakes,
but I also think people can learn faster and progress farther without those mistakes... and that comes from proper guidance.

to just use careless abandon (extraordinarily low sense of self preservation) with oneself to learn, is pretty dangerous and not something I would be proud of or recommend to others as a learning method.
Especially on a motorcycle!
Thanks for answering my questions. As usual you skip right over those.

I can show definitive improvement through laptimes combined with my comfort level in turning in that lap time. Again, the same as everyone else. I also have the feedback of trackday and race school instructors with Fastline staff including Godsuki, Gonzo, and Brandon C. No, I don't race. I haven't had the opportunity yet to dedicate my time to racing, but hopefully next season I will. It's important to me to build my skills, confidence, and bike prior to spending money to be lap traffic in a race.

I've already explained the things I've learned from crashing. I wasn't advocating going out and doing it just for the sake of crashing. Simply that it is an unavoidable reality for most of us who aren't naturally inclined to be fast on a motorcycle. I don't have the ability to have an instructor or video explain what certain feedback feels like and know how to immediately deal with that feedback when I experience it for the first time. As a result I've made mistakes in the split second we have to make the decision that keeps us on our wheels or on the ground.

Could I have progressed faster without crashing? Maybe. Can it be said definitively and absolutely without question? No. It's different for each rider. And it has nothing to do with pride. Pride gets you hurt faster than anything else. Every second I'm on the bike I'm learning or working on something about myself, the track, or the motorcycle. It's a dynamic process of goods and bads. My wrecks motivated me to come back and be faster, smoother, and a better rider. More than anything else it redoubled my dedication to getting it right. So far my times have continued to drop and my control of the bike has gotten much better. That has turned into less wrecks as I progress. No "oh " moments as a result of my own input. Better responses to the actions of other riders too.

Most of my real reckless abandon happens on the minis. I run those bikes for everything they are worth and wreck a good bit. Sometimes I go out with the intention of pushing entry speed until I wash the front. Or slip the rear on exit. I get to learn what those feel like and remove the panic from the moment. I can work on recovering and keeping my cool. It translates to the big bike and helps me keep from making a newbie move like chopping the throttle or jerking the bars when bad things happen. It's a of a lot easier to say you won't do the instinctual, but wrong thing, in the heat of the moment than it actually is to not do it.

The OP asked for experiences and opinions. I provided mine. Please feel free to provide your unique experiences on the track and how those wrecks or lack thereof helped you progress as a rider.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:55 PM   #70
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forgot all about 956...
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:00 PM   #71
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Marco Simoncellis' wreck isn't going to make him any faster. A wreck could go bad, I've seen life flight at the track many times. Don't use wrecking as a educational tool bro. There are way better ways to improve your riding
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:08 AM   #72
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Quote:
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Marco Simoncellis' wreck isn't going to make him any faster. A wreck could go bad, I've seen life flight at the track many times. Don't use wrecking as a educational tool bro. There are way better ways to improve your riding
Marco was a victim of the circumstance, not what were talking about here.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:41 AM   #73
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I can show definitive improvement through laptimes combined with my comfort level in turning in that lap time. Again, the same as everyone else. I also have the feedback of trackday and race school instructors with Fastline staff including Godsuki, Gonzo, and Brandon C. No, I don't race. ..........................................blah blah lah............................................... ......................
So far my times have continued to drop and my control of the bike has gotten much better. That has turned into less wrecks as I progress. No "oh " moments as a result of my own input. Better responses to the actions of other riders too.

...............................blah blah blah.............................................
The OP asked for experiences and opinions...........................
just going by your own measurement
considering then you have Fastline trackday and race instructors coaching you, and, if you like, add your "hard way" instruction (crashes)
on a given track (TWS (Texas World Speedway) or MSRH), big bike...
can you give an examples of your definitive proof?

What times are you running?
How much has your time improved?
In a single session?
Measured throughout the day?
Perhaps compare throughout your entire track experience history?




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Old 10-25-2011, 02:35 AM   #74
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Quote:
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Marco Simoncellis' wreck isn't going to make him any faster. A wreck could go bad, I've seen life flight at the track many times. Don't use wrecking as a educational tool bro. There are way better ways to improve your riding
that's wrong.


Back to topic, what is consider fast? Is level2 fast, level3, or expert fast? I remembered when I was in level 1, level 2 guys seem fast and level 3 guys are experts. If a racer that made it to expert without crashing, he or she is a very lucky person and it is rare. It is all about chances. Having right equipments(suspension), knowledge of the track, understanding your bike and a lot of luck will help you avoiding crashes. The more you push yourself, the greater chance you will crash. How else can you go fast if you don't push past your comfort zone? It does not take crashing to go fast but you will crash by trying to go faster.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:40 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
just going by your own measurement
considering then you have Fastline trackday and race instructors coaching you, and, if you like, add your "hard way" instruction (crashes)
on a given track (TWS (Texas World Speedway) or MSRH), big bike...
can you give an examples of your definitive proof?

What times are you running?
How much has your time improved?
In a single session?
Measured throughout the day?
Perhaps compare throughout your entire track experience history?




.
Please provide your experiences on the track and the instruction you've received that allowed you to progress so well without ever crashing. You keep ignoring that part.

You're now referring to what I'm talking about as the hard way. I'm just talking about the reality that most of us, if we spend enough time attempting to improve our skills on the track, are going to crash at some point. I choose to take those moments as learning experiences. To not be afraid of them.

For me. For most of us. Crashes happen.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:43 AM   #76
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Quote:
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Marco Simoncellis' wreck isn't going to make him any faster. A wreck could go bad, I've seen life flight at the track many times. Don't use wrecking as a educational tool bro. There are way better ways to improve your riding
We wreck, bro. Every single one of those wrecks is a learning experience. Unfortunately some of them only serve to teach others. That you would use Marco's death as an example demonstrates you have no taste, no class, and no grasp of the reality you accept when you toss a leg over a bike.

Of course there are better ways. I haven't met a single rider that prefer he wrecked over saving it. I also haven't met very many who haven't wrecked.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:05 AM   #77
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Give up kib, all your cc's combined dont even equal his cc's. Resistance is futile.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:36 AM   #78
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Give up kib, all your cc's combined dont even equal his cc's. Resistance is futile.
I'm actually really interested to hear his track experiences and how they've helped him as a rider. I have no shame in offering up my experiences and what I've learned from my mistakes.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:46 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtistMarty View Post
Im was just trying to ask HOW you measure and evaluate your performance or lack thereof?
... you measured and evaluated yourself by yourself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
I use what everyone else uses I imagine. Progression of skill and comfort in relation to lap times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
I can show definitive improvement through laptimes combined with my comfort level in turning in that lap time.


How many times does he have to say the same thing before you get it?
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:54 AM   #80
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If I crash, is that a guarantee that I'll be faster?
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