MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > Taking it to the Track
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 10-21-2011, 10:17 PM   #21
rob78
. . . . . . . . .
 
rob78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Katy/Cypress
Feedback Rating: (10)
Posts: 6,268

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
Late Model Never-Was









Quote:
Originally Posted by psychomedicHFD View Post
2 types of track riders/racers...ones who have not crashed yet and one who have already crashed.
^ this

not saying it will happen or it wont happen but the more you push the limits of the bike and the faster you get you increase the chances
__________________
TMGP #78
Team I Just Wanna Ride #104

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastynesto85 View Post
go ahead and cry so I can use the tears as lubrication to stick it in you
rob78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So now that you're (somewhat) fast. Do you need a faster bike to be faster????? floyd600 Taking it to the Track 11 04-28-2012 10:21 AM
always somebody faster RACER X Off Topic 15 01-16-2011 04:19 PM
i'm faster then you ANTISOCIAL Off Topic 0 12-23-2007 02:17 AM
Faster,Faster funny quote jrock Off Topic 0 03-20-2006 01:51 PM
Advertisement
Old 10-21-2011, 10:32 PM   #22
switch
two fifty
 
switch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,237

Experience: 4 years
Trackdays: 10+











Quote:
Originally Posted by ivancuriel View Post
I don't mean to make it seems like crashing is the only way to go faster.

The reason I am asking is because I am looking to join the CMRA next year. I don't think I can be as competitive and as fast as the other guys that have crashed before and really know the limits of their setups.
you don't need to be fast to race (it probably helps though). you just need to know what you're doing, be consistent & predictable, stick to your line etc. take that as you will, i'm a slow novice who hasn't crashed.
__________________
CMRA #250
"Me? I stand for uncertainty, insecurity, bad taste, fun, and things that go boom in the night."
switch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 08:14 AM   #23
floyd600
Grip it and Rip it!!
 
floyd600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Missouri city
Feedback Rating: (8)
Posts: 7,235

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
07 R6 Track/Race (sold)
08 R6 Track/Race-RIP








well.... IMO.... NO! You dont need to crash to go faster..

it took me a little bit to get rid of my fears after I crashed. I went down at MSRH and low side on "Sugar spice" and every time I'm there I do get a little scared, actually.. every time I'm lean all the way I get scared to low side again..

IMO the more you ride the faster you get.
floyd600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 08:22 AM   #24
floyd600
Grip it and Rip it!!
 
floyd600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Missouri city
Feedback Rating: (8)
Posts: 7,235

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
07 R6 Track/Race (sold)
08 R6 Track/Race-RIP








I dont think I went from this... to this by crashing.

1st track day
http://hart-photography.com/photocar...wImage=1188318

to this
2nd track day
http://hart-photography.com/photocar...9&fromFavs=yes

to this
3rd track day
http://hart-photography.com/photocar...1&fromFavs=yes

To this..
Last track day.
http://hart-photography.com/photocar...4&fromFavs=yes


and I fell like I have soooo much to learn.. so much!
IMO crashing makes you a little slower some what IMO.
floyd600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 08:53 AM   #25
floyd600
Grip it and Rip it!!
 
floyd600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Missouri city
Feedback Rating: (8)
Posts: 7,235

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
07 R6 Track/Race (sold)
08 R6 Track/Race-RIP








post this on WFO and you'll see lots of more answers.
"with all your respect MH"
floyd600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 09:13 AM   #26
sweeney1186
Senior Member
 
sweeney1186's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: spring
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 147

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
00 SV650 superbike
06 FJR 1300








No you do not have to crash to get faster.Unless you are a top level racer you are not going to come close to your bikes limits.If you keep crashing at trackday level pace then you are doing something wrong.Riding fast involes confidence in the fact that you are not going to crash.Having the proper inputs & riding technique are the keys.Good suspension,tires make the bike more stable & predictable under you, so your confidence in not crashing goes up & you carry more corner speed,which is how you get faster.The bike is going to move & wiggle under you,small slides of the front & rear are common on quick laps-are you ok w/ that & not going to panic when it does?Two years of trackdays & then 6 full seasons w/ the CMRA I've been down a few times-not because I was pushing it,it was being taken out by someone's mistake.Getting more track time & top level instruction are the ways to take your riding to the next level
__________________
CMRA # 78, Team EDS #56 F2 Endurance
sweeney1186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 09:39 AM   #27
ivancuriel
Sancho Pedotes
 
ivancuriel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 647

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2009 Yamaha R6 Raven.
2012 Yamaha R1 Moto GP Edition





Quote:
Originally Posted by sweeney1186 View Post
No you do not have to crash to get faster.Unless you are a top level racer you are not going to come close to your bikes limits.If you keep crashing at trackday level pace then you are doing something wrong.Riding fast involes confidence in the fact that you are not going to crash.Having the proper inputs & riding technique are the keys.Good suspension,tires make the bike more stable & predictable under you, so your confidence in not crashing goes up & you carry more corner speed,which is how you get faster.The bike is going to move & wiggle under you,small slides of the front & rear are common on quick laps-are you ok w/ that & not going to panic when it does?Two years of trackdays & then 6 full seasons w/ the CMRA I've been down a few times-not because I was pushing it,it was being taken out by someone's mistake.Getting more track time & top level instruction are the ways to take your riding to the next level
Good info Thanks.
ivancuriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 09:48 AM   #28
BigComfy
Senior Member
 
BigComfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: under a rock
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 24,322

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
SV1k (sold)
CRB6 Track Bike (sold)
Daytona 1200 (parted)
1st Gen FZ1 (sold)
1st Gen SV650 (sold)

Member Garage


Ive never crashed. I'm far from fast but probably still faster than 1/2 the advanced group and def faster than tge intermediate riders at a TRACK day level. I wanted to race but didn't want to put myself in a situation where I could get severly injured. Btw I have a quite a bit of track days under my belt. Just go out and ride at 80-90% of your comfort level and master that then start pushing more and more. But then again I'm a who doesn't want to hurt my bikes (wallet) or myself. I doubt that I would crash well...
BigComfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #29
albertinhouston
Senior Member
 
albertinhouston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 1,286












Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzo View Post
The only limit to your bike is yourself


You don't have to crash to go fast. There are so many things that will contribute to it. How/where you sit on a bike.... are you putting a knee down.... suspension.... tire compound... the lines you are taking.. an so on

Honestly, have some one vdeo tape you going around the track. You can learn so much more by watching what you do on the track versus what you THINK you are doing on the track.
albertinhouston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 10:21 AM   #30
BigComfy
Senior Member
 
BigComfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: under a rock
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 24,322

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
SV1k (sold)
CRB6 Track Bike (sold)
Daytona 1200 (parted)
1st Gen FZ1 (sold)
1st Gen SV650 (sold)

Member Garage


Best way to get faster is to follow the fast guys. Once you keep up or pass them find faster guys. But then again if you ask Tony and those guys the only way to get really fast is by going racing. I saw their progression first hand. We were all around the same level and once they started racing I could no longer hang.... Bastards!!!!
BigComfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 10:34 AM   #31
ivancuriel
Sancho Pedotes
 
ivancuriel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 647

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
2009 Yamaha R6 Raven.
2012 Yamaha R1 Moto GP Edition





I remember reading a quote from an expert racer, it was either this forum or HPC but it said something like "Ride til you crash, then bring it back a notch" or something along those lines.

Now of course crashing for careless reasons won't make you faster, but I understand what the quote is saying.

I think these guys that are experts ride right at the threshold of crashing

If you're smooth and you know that breaking point, I think that will make you one of the fastest riders. I think in order to find that threshold, a crash has to happen, or a very close call that you save. But I don't know, im not an expert (yet) lol

Last edited by ivancuriel; 10-22-2011 at 10:38 AM.
ivancuriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 12:16 PM   #32
houseofpaint
PM for BESTPRICE on parts
 
houseofpaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Spring, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 9,486

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2010 Yamaha R1 racebike
2012 GSXR750 Racebike
2003 DRZ125 semiflattracker


Member Garage





Send a message via AIM to houseofpaint
race laps > trackday laps.... hands down.

you wanna get faster, go racing. the level of focus doubles during a race. racing can be as cheap as a trackday. say you spend $150 for a trackday, you could do 2 sprint races, and you get 3 round of practice which is included. you don't gotta go off and buy brand new tires and all that jazz. sooner or later you'll gain experience and start running up front. and when you feel like getting competitive to try and win a race, feel free to buy a new set of tires or whatever. it's not a requirement. it can be treated just like a trackday (financially). and i promise you'll have twice as much fun then a trackday.

you don't have to crash to get fast, but like others have said, you start pushing limits sooner or later you will find them.

my crash record = 26 big bike crashes and maybe 15 mini bike crashes
1st year = 3
2nd year = 2
3rd year = 13
4th year = 8
5th year = thank 0, but then again i've only ridden 3 times this year

guess which year i gained the most speed? 3rd year. i was motivated. won almost every race i entered. knocked off 10 seconds off my lap time in 1 year at every track. as someone else stated, the only true limit is yourself. how far you wanna go and how fast you wanna get there, is up to you.
__________________
www.facebook.com/HouseOfPaintDesigns
Follow us on Instagram @hopdesigns

Custom Paint, Powdercoating, and Collision repair (Cars and bikes)[/b]
houseofpaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 12:20 PM   #33
houseofpaint
PM for BESTPRICE on parts
 
houseofpaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Spring, TX
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 9,486

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2010 Yamaha R1 racebike
2012 GSXR750 Racebike
2003 DRZ125 semiflattracker


Member Garage





Send a message via AIM to houseofpaint
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivancuriel View Post
I remember reading a quote from an expert racer, it was either this forum or HPC but it said something like "Ride til you crash, then bring it back a notch" or something along those lines.

Now of course crashing for careless reasons won't make you faster, but I understand what the quote is saying.

I think these guys that are experts ride right at the threshold of crashing

If you're smooth and you know that breaking point, I think that will make you one of the fastest riders. I think in order to find that threshold, a crash has to happen, or a very close call that you save. But I don't know, im not an expert (yet) lol
that helps, but a fast rider also has the ability to process things (in their mind) at speed. while going 170 mph down into turn 1 at Texas World Speedway, a fast rider's mind doesn't skip a beat. it processes where the braking point is, where the turning point is, where to apex, where to accelerate... all while going very fast speeds. a beginner rider going 170mph would feel every bit of that 170mph... while say someone like me, going 170mph, my mind continues to process everything, and instead it feels like i'm cruising 60mph.

hope that makes sense.
__________________
www.facebook.com/HouseOfPaintDesigns
Follow us on Instagram @hopdesigns

Custom Paint, Powdercoating, and Collision repair (Cars and bikes)[/b]
houseofpaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 12:37 PM   #34
Solracer
MotoHouston.com Owner.
 
Solracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kemah Area
Feedback Rating: (9)
Posts: 28,864

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2006 YZF600R (Street)
2009 Iron 883



Member Garage


Awesome posts Tony! Thanks!
__________________
Chris
Solracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 01:12 PM   #35
floyd600
Grip it and Rip it!!
 
floyd600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Missouri city
Feedback Rating: (8)
Posts: 7,235

Experience: 8 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
07 R6 Track/Race (sold)
08 R6 Track/Race-RIP








when I grow up.. I wanna be like tony!
floyd600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 08:17 PM   #36
unswift
Senior Member
 
unswift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: in 90% humidity.
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 277

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2009 ZX-6R race
2008 EX250 race








The fastest riders in the world crash all the time because they are pushing their machines to the limit to stay ahead of a (usually) equally talented guy. That's their job. If Bridgestone/Dunlop/Pirelli gets the compound wrong for the track and the temperature, everyone goes down. At their pace they have no margin for even a minor equipment failure.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a CMRA expert, or even a fast novice, who has not crashed.

Do you have to crash to get fast? Probably not. But the more you ride, and the more you push yourself and your equipment, the higher the chance that you will crash. It might not be that fast guys are crazy people who push it until they crash, but only that they are spending much more time on a motorcycle at pace than the average track day rider. Do the math. The more time you spend on the bike at speed, playing with shift points, braking markers, and mid-corner throttle control, the more chances you will have to splash that bike in the dirt. That's why if you are serious about getting fast, you hopefully have spend good money on your safety equipment and race plastics.
unswift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 08:31 PM   #37
Mark06gsxr
Let 'er eat
 
Mark06gsxr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 2,276


Bike(s):
06/09 hybrid gsxr 750
'08 Duc' 848(sold)
'06 Gsxr 1000(sold)
'02 954rr(sold)






My 2 crashes did nothing for speed, and on the day one of them happened I was pushing hard(er) and running slower than previous days. Figure that one out. Could be traffic, and trying to pass in a courteous manner, or it coulda been that I wasnt training as hard as I was in the past. Either way crashing will haunt you (even if its to an almost insignificant degree), and make you slow down sometimes. Its different going around a corner letting it all hang out, when you remember how bad it hurt to crash there..

Everyone takes things different though. Some give up, and some use a crash as a lesson. Just have to decide which one you are.

Oh yea, and "fast" is a relative term.. There is so many different levels.. Which are you trying to be?
Mark06gsxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 08:52 PM   #38
switch
two fifty
 
switch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,237

Experience: 4 years
Trackdays: 10+











Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
race laps > trackday laps.... hands down.

you wanna get faster, go racing. the level of focus doubles during a race. racing can be as cheap as a trackday. say you spend $150 for a trackday, you could do 2 sprint races, and you get 3 round of practice which is included. you don't gotta go off and buy brand new tires and all that jazz. sooner or later you'll gain experience and start running up front. and when you feel like getting competitive to try and win a race, feel free to buy a new set of tires or whatever. it's not a requirement. it can be treated just like a trackday (financially). and i promise you'll have twice as much fun then a trackday.

you don't have to crash to get fast, but like others have said, you start pushing limits sooner or later you will find them.

my crash record = 26 big bike crashes and maybe 15 mini bike crashes
1st year = 3
2nd year = 2
3rd year = 13
4th year = 8
5th year = thank 0, but then again i've only ridden 3 times this year

guess which year i gained the most speed? 3rd year. i was motivated. won almost every race i entered. knocked off 10 seconds off my lap time in 1 year at every track. as someone else stated, the only true limit is yourself. how far you wanna go and how fast you wanna get there, is up to you.
this right here.

if you wanna break into racing, go for a mini. cheap and stupid fun way to race. you could also do big bike endurance (BBE) with a couple of friends. you will learn a lot watching the super fast guys pass you (over and over), and its still a race environment.

good post, tony.
__________________
CMRA #250
"Me? I stand for uncertainty, insecurity, bad taste, fun, and things that go boom in the night."
switch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 09:20 PM   #39
Squanto84
Ruh Roh..
 
Squanto84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (7)
Posts: 2,384

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+






Member Garage





I've never crashed on the street, or on the track. I can ride mid-pack Advanced level on my 675. I've had a bad head-shake at the gut check at MSRH, and it set me back a little that day. I can confidently powerslide the rear at GSS (clockwise). I don't want to crash - I hurt enough as it is. In my opinion, smoothness is the key (and yes you can be very aggressive while still being smooth). Dirtbikes definitely can be a fun learning tool, but they can hurt you just as bad (or worse) if you fall. My motto is to run a predictable tire combination that is not too sticky, and to smoothly work my way up to their traction limit. If you can control a slide at a slower speed (less risk), then when you are pushing yourself with the fastest guys it will feel natural. As far as lap times, I have run 1:43's at MSRH, and 2:00's at TWS (Texas World Speedway).
__________________
Roadracing a dirtbike..? Now that's just stupid! -Dad
Squanto84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 09:51 PM   #40
THE DEAN OF LEAN
CMRA/WERA #171 AMA#771
 
THE DEAN OF LEAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 2,996

Experience: 3 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
GSXR 600 Race Bike




Member Garage


Crashing sucks! Crashing sucks! Crashing sucks!
Now that I made that clear i should note its part of the risk you take everytime you throw a leg over the bike. I dont know if I would relate crashing and gaining speed. Seat time is the key to speed. Race laps is definately more quality than a trackday especially if you start on first few rows because
you get dragged down by faster riders. Endurance is excellent starting out. Lot cheaper (like 250 ea when a team a four is splitting costs and thats enuff to not do it half ) and u get more laps than a track day
As far as learning the limits of traction try dirt bikes or minis. Good for learning when your
On edge and a cheap repair bill when u do plus u can ride all the time. I had a honda crf100 with slicks and would ride it in wet grass to learn to ride the slide now i can steer the bike by sliding the rear tire you also learn about pushimg the front, tony was good at this lol
This is all things you learm at the colin edwards bootcamp. Worth every penny!
__________________
tj
www.TRACK-JUNKIE.com
THE DEAN OF LEAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy