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Old 10-04-2011, 01:47 PM   #1
AaronP220
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Throttle Vs Suspension.

I was doing some thinking, I know it's dangerous, after my TD Saturday as I came across a situation that was new to me. I'm more than sure my thoughts are based around a bike with improperly set up suspension. What happened that made me think was we were running GSS CCW. Coming out of 13 on the front straight is a right hand kink. I take it at the top of second gear. As I've gotten faster I've found my self more into the throttle thru that turn, thus carrying more speed on to the front straight. I had also found that the more I applied the throttle, the wider the bike wanted to run and I actually ran off the track in my first session and it caught me off guard.

So, throughout the day I was trying to figure out ways to get thru the corner faster without running wide or having to lean the bike to what I thought (and it probably wasn't) too far. Ultimately, I found a speed that was quick enough, at a lesser throttle that would carry my line thru and out of the corner and then get to full throttle once I started to pick the bike up.

I think where my questions come in is that I'm certainly not the only one faced with this. Suspension can be set up many different ways. What may give you the turn in, stability etc may take away from another area like corner exits. As I've never been the "Take it until you crash and back it off one" (ahhhemm..kib). I prefer to hear opinions on how to combat this.

I tried hanging off the bike more and longer - IE standing the bike up while still at full hang off, but I still found my self pushing to the edge of the track faster than I thought it should thus making me stop opening the throttle until the line straightened out.

I'm certainly not the most experienced rider and always willing to learn. I like the stability and the way my bike turns in now, but it seems to come at the cost of it running wide on corner exits. So, maybe someone has an option that will offer good discussion.

Thanks!
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:55 PM   #2
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Because of the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, the bike will always want to stand up, and therefore run wide, on corner exit.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Because of the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, the bike will always want to stand up, and therefore run wide, on corner exit.
Natually, I mean, that's physics that you can't get around but there's got to be a way to ride correctly or something to less that effect. I mean, coming out of that corner at full throttle seems impossible on my bike. It will run straight the off the track, as I found out, even with knee-down lean angles.

Then again, I might just be an -clown and riding all kinds of wrong.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronP220 View Post
Natually, I mean, that's physics that you can't get around but there's got to be a way to ride correctly or something to less that effect. I mean, coming out of that corner at full throttle seems impossible on my bike. It will run straight the off the track, as I found out, even with knee-down lean angles.

Then again, I might just be an -clown and riding all kinds of wrong.

Alternatively you could be the jolly green giant and your bike is capable of a fuckload more lean than your "knee down lean angles" . Not tryingh to be insulting...........well, ok a little bit......but a taller dude in theory should be able to tap a knee down at a lower lean angle than a shorter dude.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:18 PM   #5
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How is the suspension set up, and what suspesnsion are you running?


Read through this thread. A lot of good advice if nothing else
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238205

Last edited by Mark06gsxr; 10-04-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:21 PM   #6
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I was running wide on that same kink, trying to come out at the top of second. It's probably different for me being a different size on a different bike, but I started staying a little wider from the previous turn and turning into 13 a little earlier, and it seemed to help. I was hitting 3rd as soon as the bike was upright rather than right before the finish line.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:30 PM   #7
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Are you using the same line as when you were slower?

It could be that the line you were using before, at slower speeds, is pushing you wide coming out of that turn. You may have not notice it before because you were slower coming out of the turn, but now that you are giving it gas, it has become more noticeable.

Last edited by ileono918; 10-04-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark06gsxr View Post
How is the suspension set up, and what suspesnsion are you running?


Read through this thread. A lot of good advice if nothing else
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238205
It's stock suspension with the fork caps flush with the triple and it's been adjusted. But there's nothing aftermarket in it.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Are you using the same line as when you were slower?
going in to the corner, but not coming out.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:08 PM   #10
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In my experience with MX, suspension set up just for your needs makes a HUGE difference. You don't realize it until you've had a bike re-valved and re-sprung for you. Having that done helps with endurance, cornering and over handling of the bike. I can't say much regarding sportbikes on tracks as I don't have first hand experience with that. But i'm 99% sure it would also make a significant difference in overall handling which would only help your cornering and ultimately your lap times.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irak View Post
Are you using the same line as when you were slower?

It could be that the line you were using before, at slower speeds, is pushing you wide coming out of that turn. You may have not notice it before because you were slower coming out of the turn, but now that you are giving it gas, it has become more noticeable.
This looks like very good advice here.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:19 PM   #12
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I was thinking about this earlier but I was falling back to using a different line to get the next turn straightened out more.

ie cut 12 tighter (slower) and make the straight longer (faster). I had trouble getting the lines right to experiment with it but I noticed some videos where people were doing the same, mostly for setting up on passes on slower riders and getting a better drive into the straight while they're still trying to stand the bike up since they took 12 wider.. I think that would be more of a solution than changing your suspension if you're already comfortable with the way it has been setup for some time.

You could always call whoever set it up for you and get feedback as well.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:20 PM   #13
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O, what do you guys mean suspension is supposed to be setup?
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronP220 View Post
going in to the corner, but not coming out.
Sounds like you need to find a new entry line. More entry speed requires a wider line to still hit the 2/3 apex.

What tires are you running? You didn't mention if the bike is ROLLING towards the track edge or if your tires are SLIDING you out to the edge.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imma_stocker View Post
Sounds like you need to find a new entry line. More entry speed requires a wider line to still hit the 2/3 apex.

What tires are you running? You didn't mention if the bike is ROLLING towards the track edge or if your tires are SLIDING you out to the edge.
Power Pures.

I'm pretty sure I'm not sliding out. At least, if I am, it doesn't feel like it.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:29 PM   #16
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when i hit the gas going through turn 13 going into the front straight, i find myself aiming for the inside of the "kink" (almost at the dirt) KNOWING that it will push me to the outside of the straight when gas is applied.

perhaps when you go around turm 13 your not picking the bike back up fast enough? almost like you are lingering through the corner longer than needed.

I'm no CMRA. take much salt with this.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:39 PM   #17
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What I was also thinking, was that sometimes you start drifting out that way and you start looking that way. Look where you want to go.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:40 PM   #18
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Black is what I did when I ran off. Orange was what I was trying to do. LOL
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
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What I was also thinking, was that sometimes you start drifting out that way and you start looking that way. Look where you want to go.
I've always been pretty good at looking where I want to go...
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #20
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From the pic, your line is different than what i would take.
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