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Old 11-07-2006, 01:07 AM   #1
speedismo
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"backing it in"

i was readin this other thread about backin it in, so the ques came to my mind.
somebody will have to xplain/show me this whole backin it in thing. I just dont get it.
In my case, when i "position" myself for a turn, the center of my feet r like at the edge of the footpegs, my body has already moved to the turn side edge of seat, i pull my torso up and open my turn side leg wide while gettin on brakes and i m probably trying to get 1 or 2 downshifts. And there is no way in i can get on the rear brake without reall upsetting my whole "body position".... without loosing my "weighing footpegs" thingi!

so my question in short is that have given it a thought and am unable to figure out how to really do this going into a turn without compromisin my body position.

the only place i can imagine myself doing this is if i plan to get past somebody on the brakes, going into the turn. becuase of inferior body position, i will actually com out with lesser than optimal exit speed, but so woould the guy i just managed to pass cos i just took his race line and hes stuck behind me. therefore, i would hv accomplihed my task of getting past him , although at the cost of making that turn sub-optimal for both of us
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:12 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Someone smarter than me
1. Set yourself up on the bike for the corner - get your body right up front almost sitting on the tank filler cap. Position yourself sitting ever so slightly to the inside (e.g. half a a cheek off the seat to the inside).

2. Begin braking - using the front brake as normal (i.e. this is where almost all braking force is) and lightly brake with the rear. You do NOT use the rear brake to initiate the slide - if you do you prolly won't be around for very long to tell the tale, especially if you lock the rear wheel - the rear brake has a completely different use which we'll get to soon.

Now you should have most of the weight of the bike on the front and a light bit of braking to the rear.

3. Pull in clutch and select the gear you need to be in at the apex of the corner - or where you are going to get on the gas again.

This doesn't necessarily mean 1,2, or 3 gears just as many as is necessary. At the Supermoto School we use 2 gears as this tends to be easiest and best way for students to learn (3rd to 1st). In addition, speed has nothing to do with it, you can back it in from 2nd to 1st or 6th to 1st, it just depends on the circumstances.

4. Lean bike slightly into the corner, and DUMP the clutch, yes, dump it. The rear should now break away reasonably gently and with control. Here, you also maintain some pressure and use of the rear brake, all the way to the apex.

The rear brake is actually used to maintain the slower rotation speed of the rear wheel in relation to the tarmac once the clutch is dumped. If you just dump the clutch the rear will break away and initiate a slide but before you reach the apex, tyre/tarmac friction will have dragged the wheel (and engine speed) back up again to roll with the tarmac - so the slide stops way before you want it to. The rear brake is used to balance this so you can maintain the slide deeper into the corner to the apex. It also gives you more control over the overall slide.

The rear wheel should maintain rotation all the way and if it is locking up, you are using too much rear brake and you will lose stability of the bike.

The clip shown on TV wasn't a representation of how to back it in but was a skid with bike coming to a stop in front of the camera.

There are obviously a number of other things like when you put your leg out, where to and getting exactly where you want to be in the corner while sliding and visual stuff but I hope this clarifies a few things.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:43 AM   #3
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excellent find ramius. first off, think back to physics class, i remember studying gyroscopes and the professor had a wheel with a rod through it and had us hold it the rod at both ends with the wheel upright so it was like a wheel on a bicycle or something, when he spun the wheel and u tried to mess with it by leaning it side to side, it would actualy fight to stay upright. ok so that explains why you can usualy keep ur feet off the ground when approaching a redlight doing like 2mph on a 400lbs bike. as long as the wheel is spinning even slowly the bike wants to stay upright, ok so now apply that to sliding your motorcycle, last year i was stupid like mark and thought haner was locking up his rear wheel into turn 1 but it wasnt making sense to me because of your completly stopping the spin of the wheel the back of the bike its no longer wanting to stay up and ur basicaly dragging weight around, kinda like if someone just threw anchor off the back of your bike and u have to ride around like that; you would wreck in a heart beat. so there, not just me but phycics proves mark wrong. sliding the bike isnt the hard part though, its predicting what the back ends going to do on a sticky rubbery track surface, which is why the best of the best eat doing it sometimes, like this gentleman here lol (gary mccoy)

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Last edited by Buck Nasty; 11-07-2006 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:58 AM   #4
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Have you rode Motocross?

The best example I can think of is T3 out at TWS (Texas World Speedway). You are already doing everything in your power to slow down for it if you get T1 and T2 correct. It is a slick corner as well. If you get your weight forward as you lean in and tap the rear you can squre it off with the throttle. I do not know how else to explain it other then spend some time on a dirt bike. To my understanding there is not a whole lot of times where actually doing this is beneficial. It chews up the tire and not done right just gets the bike out of shape and you waste time. It can be real good for checking someone on the inside of a corner for a pass but, most people in CMRA are not looking for that close of competition. That is all I can think of for now.
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:00 PM   #5
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hey mood swinga what kinda track bike did you get?
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:10 PM   #6
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umm thanks, but u guyz still dont answer my body position question. Ramius's post is a lil help, but thats about it. u r just repeating wat i already know

one way of doing it i understand, which is u tap the rear brake to break the rear tire a lil loose, u r already on front brakes , but u give gas and bingo, u have a backin it in ( its like doing burnout in a corner)

the one i dont understand is where u guyz keep stressing rear brakes and not much else. how do u do it with mostly rear brakes and lil else?
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Old 11-07-2006, 12:39 PM   #7
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Dang that was a hard hit mccoy took on his back was he alright after that one?
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
umm thanks, but u guyz still dont answer my body position question. Ramius's post is a lil help, but thats about it. u r just repeating wat i already know

one way of doing it i understand, which is u tap the rear brake to break the rear tire a lil loose, u r already on front brakes , but u give gas and bingo, u have a backin it in ( its like doing burnout in a corner)

the one i dont understand is where u guyz keep stressing rear brakes and not much else. how do u do it with mostly rear brakes and lil else?
Guess it depends on how much speed you are carrying. If you lock up the rear and stay over the top of the bike you can slide it in. Did you not pickup on those things while racing minis? That is about the only way you can get around the track on the mini. I personaly do not like riding loose on the big bikes. I would rather keep the tire from spinning. Saves on tire costs and keeps me feeling happy. :icon_bigg
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:17 PM   #9
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Sorry, that is about all I know... catch up with Ty or Mike at the track and ask them.
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
one way of doing it i understand, which is u tap the rear brake to break the rear tire a lil loose, u r already on front brakes , but u give gas and bingo, u have a backin it in ( its like doing burnout in a corner)
if you do this beprapared for a highside. the only time you might do a "burnout" in the corner is comin out of the corner and you dont use your brake to initiate it cuz that would slow you down

Quote:
the one i dont understand is where u guyz keep stressing rear brakes and not much else. how do u do it with mostly rear brakes and lil else?
^^ those guys are probably talkin about when riding in the dirt.

when you go into a corner use your front brakes as normal and when pull in the clutch to down let your foot right foot rest on the rear brake (dont stomp on it or hold it down all the way) then release the clutch. i wouldnt just dump it. slowly let it out until you get the hang of it
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:36 PM   #11
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if you wanna see it done come ride with me on the street. cuz i love backin the sv 650 into u turns. oh and svs are really good for learning how to do this. i dont care what anybody says those are some fun little bikes
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romeo36
if you wanna see it done come ride with me on the street. cuz i love backin the sv 650 into u turns. oh and svs are really good for learning how to do this. i dont care what anybody says those are some fun little bikes
that would hv been cool, i wanna watch it for real.. but i m bikeless right now!

whos lending me their bike to ride with romeo36. and if I am right, u r Chris Romeo expert no.36 from CMRA right?
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:02 PM   #13
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kalkat i am without bike also =( solld
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
that would hv been cool, i wanna watch it for real.. but i m bikeless right now!

whos lending me their bike to ride with romeo36. and if I am right, u r Chris Romeo expert no.36 from CMRA right?
You can use mine... following conventional bike use rules of course. You break it you buy it.
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:36 PM   #15
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theres a website.. on this... i just typed out a whole book and deleted it cuz id get flamed if it came out of my mouth...

lemme find it
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:42 PM   #16
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cant find it anymore.. but basically ur body position is just whats comfortable to u... same standards as if ur going throug ha turn..
head slightly to one side shoulders following as well as ... dont twist ur body.. keep avery thing straight.. and look to where u wanna go...

theres two ways tho...

u can down shift.. and break traction off this way..
and the other way i wouldnt try unless u get a slipper clutch. but u probably already know it.. if uve looked into it... dont flame me... if u wanna discuss this hit me up on aim.. i wanna see what yall have come up with.. HOUSTON METAL
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:53 PM   #17
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nutz. I am still learning to blip the throttle when downshifting.... Not to worried about backing it in right now.hehehe
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:59 PM   #18
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whos lending me their bike to ride with romeo36. and if I am right, u r Chris Romeo expert no.36 from CMRA right?
YEPPERS thats me:icon_bigg , i turned my old racebike from 04 back into a street bike on saterday so i could ride down to the rally. if somebody wants to buy it let me know cause its for sale
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:59 PM   #19
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holy smokes....!!!! bubba (romeo36) got one right. actually he is dead on. now, i'm no back it in expert myself like haner or a few others, but i have been know to throw it in sideways a few times here or there. i can promise you that in NO way what so ever do you need to apply rear brake to back a motorcycle in. it can and will help you exagerate your slide if you know what the you are doing, but if not then you are prolly going to end up putting yourself on your head. the whole process is done with applying the front brake and slipping the clutch with your fingers. if you ever watch a video clip of the motogp guys or are fast enough to catch a glimps of some of the ama guys as they go into a corner, you'll notice that they never really just dump the clutch, they feather it. this allows them the control of how much engine braking they want. this way they can come into a corner and not just bang the bike off of the rev limiter after 2 downshifts into a corner, helps big time with keeping the bike geometry solid on corner entry. IMO. like i said i'm no pro, but this is where i have figured out it helps me. ohh yeah bubs. those sv's are fun little bikes. :icon_bigg

later dudes
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:33 PM   #20
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slow down enough - and i'll get it on video at the next lstd track day...

and then i'll post it up on here...
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