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Old 11-03-2006, 10:42 AM   #1
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The difference between US and THEM

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Gaza gunmen flee hidden among protesting women

GAZA CITY (CNN) -- Palestinian militants who had been in a standoff with Israeli soldiers escaped Friday, many of them slipping away in a crowd of women who had come to protest the Israeli action.

The gunmen had been holed up in a northern Gaza mosque for hours mingling with a crowd of Palestinian women who had formed a human shield outside, the Israel Defense Forces said. Palestinian sources said some of the militants had put on women's clothes.

The number and identities of those killed remained unclear Friday amid conflicting reports.

The group of women rallied outside a mosque in Beit Hanoun shortly after Hamas radio called on women and children to march in protest at the incident, IDF said.

"The criminal enemy campaign against our people will collapse and fail, like previous campaigns," said Ismail Radwan, a spokesman for the ruling Hamas party, according to The Associated Press. Israel has intensified its military operations in Palestinian-controlled Gaza during the past few days.

Israeli troops fired on a group of women approaching the mosque, Palestinian security sources said.

An IDF spokesman said the troops fired on the women because two militants were hiding among the group. He said the troops killed both militants.

Palestinian medical sources said two women aged 45 and 50, who were demonstrating at the mosque, were killed.

Hours earlier Palestinian security sources had reported one woman was killed and 10 were wounded when the IDF opened fire on the crowd.

Israeli daily Haaretz reported witnesses said one of the protesters shot by Israeli forces was a 40-year-old woman. The witnesses said she was killed and several others were wounded when IDF troops opened fire on the group who gathered and served as human shields for the gunmen to slip out of the mosque.

When Israeli forces entered the mosque no gunmen were inside, an IDF spokesman said.

The Ramattan News Agency, based in Gaza City, said a member of its reporting crew at the scene, Hamza Al-Atar, was wounded by an Israeli sniper.

The fighting began overnight Thursday when a number of wanted militants opened fire on Israeli forces who were surrounding the mosque the gunmen were hiding inside, IDF said.

Intense fighting eventually broke out between the two groups and heavy gunfire and grenades caused the roof of the mosque to collapse, an IDF spokesman said. He did not give word on casualties.

'Military purpose'
This latest incident comes three days after Israel intensified its military operations in Gaza. Since the June 25 cross-border abduction of an Israeli soldier by Hamas-linked Palestinian militants, Israel has launched many raids.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz on Wednesday said Israel's latest military operation had a "military purpose" and was not just a "show operation."

But Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas characterized Israel's operation in Beit Hanoun as a "massacre" and a "crime against the Palestinian people." He called for Israel to immediately stop the operation.

Palestinian medical sources reported Friday that 25 Palestinians had been killed since Israel's operation in Beit Hanoun began on Wednesday.

In another operation in Gaza, Israel launched four airstrikes on militants, the IDF said.

Two strikes targeted militants firing Qassam rockets into the northern Gaza town of Jabalya and a third attack was aimed at militants planting bombs nearby.

The fourth airstrike hit a car carrying militants in the outskirts of Gaza City as it was traveling in the outskirts of a Gaza City neighborhood, the IDF said. Palestinian security sources reported four Hamas members were killed in the strike. The IDF did not give word on casualties.

In the West Bank town of Ramallah, Israeli troops arrested a Hamas member serving on the Palestinian Cabinet on Friday, Israeli security sources said.

The arrest of Abdel Rahman Zidan, the Public Works and Housing Minister of the ruling Hamas party, is preceded by other arrests made during Israeli sweeps.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...nce/index.html
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Old 11-03-2006, 10:46 AM   #2
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I read this this morning on the BBC website.

I think it shows the weakness of the IDF. The IDF of the 60's and 70's would have mowed them down with machine gun fire. Human shields and all.
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Old 11-03-2006, 10:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
I read this this morning on the BBC website.

I think it shows the weakness of the IDF. The IDF of the 60's and 70's would have mowed them down with machine gun fire. Human shields and all.
Gotta be careful with that...if they do that then they, being in the region that they are in, will no doubt experience a significant increase of attacks on the Israeli territories...
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Old 11-03-2006, 10:54 AM   #4
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What would you advise with the given circumstance? Would you advocate firing on the women as they are intentionally impeding any engagement? Would you just cut your losses and let them go?

The reason I ask these questions is because I'm wondering what actions we should advocate the implementation of because I am beginning to see a trend with the terrorists. They explore every avenue available to them and will undoubtly exploit given weaknesses. If we implement a policy of non-attack on civilians/women/children, they will organize rallies to carry out their attacks. If we partake in the policy of engaging the enemy amongst civilians, we will undoubtly see significant collateral damage and will therefore be down-talked by the world community (as if we gave a ). So what do you all suggest we do given these circumstances?
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Old 11-03-2006, 10:57 AM   #5
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They should have stormed the mosque before the women had a chance to congregate.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:01 AM   #6
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IMHO, they did the right thing (limited non-combatant injuries). As was stated they are damed if they do and damed if they don't........but using a heavy hand (mowing them all down) would bring more condemnation from all over.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:01 AM   #7
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I would advise a two fold policy.

First, kill anyone and everyone who helps them, women, children, old men, unicks, bankers, bakers, maids, mistresses, exc. exc.

Second, control their media through war time military censorship. This is not uncommon or unprecedented; we did it through the entire WW2 campaign.

Control their propaganda machine and destroy their ability to make war. It is not hard; all it takes is some from people who don’t believe that war should be Politically Correct.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Gotta be careful with that...if they do that then they, being in the region that they are in, will no doubt experience a significant increase of attacks on the Israeli territories...
Becareful? Who gives a F***? Send them to Alla.

Take the gloves off.

I have no sympathy for the enemy.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
I would advise a two fold policy.

First, kill anyone and everyone who helps them, women, children, old men, unicks, bankers, bakers, maids, mistresses, exc. exc.

Second, control their media through war time military censorship. This is not uncommon or unprecedented; we did it through the entire WW2 campaign.

Control their propaganda machine and destroy their ability to make war. It is not hard; all it takes is some from people who donít believe that war should be Politically Correct.
Are you considering the severe implications of implenting such a policy?
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
Becareful? Who gives a F***? Send them to Alla.

Take the gloves off.

I have no sympathy for the enemy.
Think a lil harder about it...
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indifferent0028"They've created a nation of spenders, speculators, and consumers, and they've destroyed the savers, producers, and the investing class that built this country. We're moving from a market-based economy to essentially a planned economy. We're abandoning capitalism and embracing socialism. That's a recipe for disaster." - Peter Schiff
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Are you considering the severe implications of implenting such a policy?
What? That John Kerry and Hilary Clinton will B****?

I have zero sympathy for the enemy and I firmly believe that wars are just that, war.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
What? That John Kerry and Hilary Clinton will B****?

I have zero sympathy for the enemy and I firmly believe that wars are just that, war.
No but I'm talking about the international community... **** Hillary and **** John Kerry...The International Community...
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Think a lil harder about it...
Why don't you think about how being politically correct with an enemy who will stop at nothing to kill us will effect the outcome of any conflict?
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
No but I'm talking about the international community...
Who gives a f*** what France or the UN thinks.

France has its own internal conflicts with their own Muslim population and the UN has no will to enforce their existing resolution, much less any new ones. The UN is irrelevant.

Last edited by Gigolo Jason; 11-03-2006 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
Why don't you think about how being politically correct with an enemy who will stop at nothing to kill us will effect the outcome of any conflict?
Look I'm the LAST one you can call politically correct...I fukin hate PC. I am saying that we cannot sustain a war of the magnitude of which we will face without alliances...if we lose those alliances we will be impaired...give a how rich you think we are, we need alliances...we cannot conduct mass bombings w/o partners, we cannot conduct raids w/o partners....I could go on all day....
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
Who gives a f*** what France or the UN thinks.

France has its own internal conflicts with their own Muslim population and the UN has no will to enforce their existing resolution, much less any new ones. The UN is irrelevant.
So how would we effectively conduct missions w/o using our military bases overseas?
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA
Look I'm the LAST one you can call politically correct...I fukin hate PC. I am saying that we cannot sustain a war of the magnitude of which we will face without alliances...if we lose those alliances we will be impaired...give a how rich you think we are, we need alliances...we cannot conduct mass bombings w/o partners, we cannot conduct raids w/o partners....I could go on all day....
Go talk to France and Germany and ask them for permission if you want. I will pass. Europe wouldn't exist as we know it today if it wasn't for the US military standing on the walls of war with an M16 and a few grenades.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
Go talk to France and Germany and ask them for permission if you want. I will pass. Europe wouldn't exist as we know it today if it wasn't for the US military standing on the walls of war with an M16 and a few grenades.
I'm not even talking about just France and Germany...I'm referring to England, China, Spain, and most importantly those mideastern countries we consider allies...paricularly since our area of operations would infact be in the MIDEAST
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
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So how would we effectively conduct missions w/o using our military bases overseas?
So you think that those over seas bases were acquired over a cup of tea and a crumpet? I am sorry to inform you that it is the contrary. We have our overseas basis because of past military conflicts and victories on the field of battle.
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Old 11-03-2006, 11:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Jason
So you think that those over seas bases were acquired over a cup of tea and a crumpet? I am sorry to inform you that it is the contrary. We have our overseas basis because of past military conflicts and victories on the field of battle.
So if we are kicked out of country or sanctioned, I imagine we will just force them to allow us to use their land...you are delusional
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