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Old 09-07-2011, 10:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
That's part of the issue though. Many of the things you don't discover until after you own it. You can't exactly find out just HOW hot the things are on a short test ride. You don't know about the -poor build quality inside the motor until it grenades itself 2 years down the road. At some point the manufacturer has to take responsibility for his product.

It would be one thing if most bikes were like HD, or even most air-cooled motors.
I have never even shopped for one and I know all that. Its the name you buy. I thought everyone knew they were pieces of .
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:25 AM   #42
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Buyer beware. You should know what you are buying when you buy one. Buy it or dont, it's your option. Its the precedent the suit could set that worries me. Thats what its really all about.
The article doesn't indicate the parameters of the class, but it is likely that anyone having issues with the motors complained of that doesn't get in on this suit will be barred in the future. I don't think a legislator is going to author legislation dealing specifically with a particular type of motorcycle engine, particularly since motorcycles are a relatively small part of motorized vehicles to begin with.
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
That's part of the issue though. Many of the things you don't discover until after you own it. You can't exactly find out just HOW hot the things are on a short test ride. You don't know about the -poor build quality inside the motor until it grenades itself 2 years down the road. At some point the manufacturer has to take responsibility for his product.

It would be one thing if most bikes were like HD, or even most air-cooled motors.
i gotta tell you man, i'm surprised/impressed that you've made some level-headed opinions on this despite being and HD owner. I assumed wrongly that you would of done everything in your power to defend them in typical HD owner fashion..
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:33 AM   #44
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Right, but those don't rise to a design defect products liability case, which the pants burning allegation entails. They're just bad business practices suitable for the local deceptive trade practices act, not a lawsuit in federal court. To win the plaintiffs are going to have to show that the engine's design caused them injury, and that a better design was feasible at the time of original design. Because a lot of Harley's design is meant to evoke nostalgia and is the reason the bikes are desirable it will be difficult to argue that alternative designs were available and feasible. More people purchase Harleys than metrics because of that "classic" design.

Allowing the case to proceed isn't guaranteeing a win to the plaintiffs. It sounds like they haven't entered discovery yet so the MoCo has plenty of additional opportunities to shut this down.

I missed the segment of the original post indicating this was a class action. Given that, this is probably an attempt to force settlement. The plaintiffs' attorneys are hoping that the remote possibility that this ends in a plaintiff's win combined with the negative publicity they are already generating will convince the MoCo to bow out early and settle.
Arguably, alternative designs were (and are) both feasible and available. The Revolution engine for example, and then there's HD's experimentation on the Nova project some 20 years back. That's only looking at water cooled. Even oil cooling would make a massive difference, as would including oil coolers, using better materials to reduce heat radiated from the exhaust, etc.

Won't even get into the primary bearing failures, compensators which themselves after a few hundred miles (forcing an at-owner's-expense upgrade to the SE part if they don't want to keep coming back every 1000 miles or so), head shake (since the assembly techs aren't properly trained), pre-detonation issues caused by -poor fuel management computers, engines which cannot run properly on 10% ethanol unless the owner pops for thousands in parts and labor (risking a warranty issue in the process), etc.

I could go on and on and on, but simply put, HD has been churning out and charging a premium for it while blaming it on the owners. At least now we know who taught Steve Jobs to get angry at your customer base and laugh at them while they give you more money...
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:36 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRYAN View Post
i gotta tell you man, i'm surprised/impressed that you've made some level-headed opinions on this despite being and HD owner. I assumed wrongly that you would of done everything in your power to defend them in typical HD owner fashion..
Thanks!

I am one of the rare HD owners that utterly cannot stand the MoCo. I think they churn out, for the most part, an overpriced, overrated, under-engineered, underpowered, overweight piece of while telling people it is a premium brand.

Yes, I own a Road Glide, but only because I happen to love that particular bike, and have since the day it was first made. It may well be the best kept secret HD has had and is about the only true tourer they make. No, it will never see 1/4 mile times under 14seconds or so, but on the other hand, 1000 mile days feel like a trip to the store.
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:54 AM   #46
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Quote:
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Buyer beware. You should know what you are buying when you buy one. Buy it or dont, it's your option. Its the precedent the suit could set that worries me. Thats what its really all about.
I agree here if you have a issue with the machine then don't purchase one that's how capitalism works.
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:04 PM   #47
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To each their own in motorcycle selection.
However to remain in business you need to change with times either on the leading edge or the trailing edge.
I belive Harley will change to meet their specific market.
When was the time you saw a typewriter, or a black and white TV etc.
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:48 AM   #48
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Quote:
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On the one hand, I agree with you. On another though, I don't.

HD is intentionally producing hotter and hotter bikes. There are things they can do to reduce the heat output, but they simply choose not to, and there is no legitimate reason for them not to do it either.

When Yamaha for example is turning out bikes with even more displacement which run substantially cooler while meeting EPA standards, there really is no excuse for an HD to be running at clothing-burning temps.
All the better reason to wear shorts while riding a harley.
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:22 AM   #49
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I don't own a Harley, never have and probably won't. I just don't understand how Americans can wish ill will on an American company that provides thousands of jobs an contributes millions to our economy. It also surprises me that so many people are so concerned about what someone else rides. The important thing is that we ride.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:03 AM   #50
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It also surprises me that so many people are so concerned about what someone else rides.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:19 AM   #51
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I don't own a Harley, never have and probably won't. I just don't understand how Americans can wish ill will on an American company that provides thousands of jobs an contributes millions to our economy. It also surprises me that so many people are so concerned about what someone else rides. The important thing is that we ride.
The only people with "ill will" towards Harley are the people in the lawsuit. The only reason they have said "ill will" is because they want a chunk of Harley's money.

I don't know maybe the new Harley's are POS's but I had one for nearly ten years and it was great. Ran like a watch and only changed the oil. It was a '92 dyna.?.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:57 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Fast View Post
I don't own a Harley, never have and probably won't. I just don't understand how Americans can wish ill will on an American company that provides thousands of jobs an contributes millions to our economy. It also surprises me that so many people are so concerned about what someone else rides. The important thing is that we ride.
well put
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:13 AM   #53
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:07 PM   #54
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Dad's dropping off his 08 street glide today for a problem In the primary, so yeah we bought harleys for the name but I'm a lover of all motorcycles and hope to add a few more types to my stable.
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Old 09-10-2011, 05:40 PM   #55
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:08 PM   #56
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... Its more HD;s customers that are the problem, not HD.
You mean the Village People?
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:59 AM   #57
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Its more HD;s customers that are the problem, not HD.
i agree, that and some of the staff at the dealers, very cocky about their product and too proud to admit that they do have flaws. I admit it and still love the bike, the models they have.

I wonder how Victory bikes hold up
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:06 PM   #58
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I dont know about ya'll, but im waiting for monday to get here so i can watch the Gears of War 3 bike build on OCC.
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