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Old 08-21-2011, 10:18 AM   #21
LCLF Brain
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And her Instructor was wrong......it's pirates and power rangers.
Mmmm, Kimberly...
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:53 AM   #22
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But wearing a lid help you to express your self so much more with all the cool designs that you can put on them.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
...I have a full face, I wear it when it gets brutally cold, but it blocks out too much of the world for my tastes...
I hope your tastes include concrete. That's what the world you don't like blocking out tastes like in a crash.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:50 AM   #24
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I hope your tastes include concrete. That's what the world you don't like blocking out tastes like in a crash.
Yeah, okay, thanks.

By the way, my profession is a vehicle crash investigator, and I've been riding since I was 12. I'm now 48. I ride low and slow, I ride a cruiser, and I treat every cager around me like they're trying to kill me. If you see me on the road, you might mistake my bike for a La-Z-Boy recliner, because I'm kicked back and not in a hurry.

I'm not denying full face helmets offer extra protection, but the reduced awareness I get from one is not to my liking. If the ONLY extra risk I take is that I wear a half helmet as opposed to a full face helmet, then I assure you that I am a lot safer than most bikes on the road.

Many metric bikes gear up to the nines all purty and then ride it like they stole it. They try to be cool with speed, addicted to adrenalin. Those are the ones who die most, much more often than cruisers. I see it all. the. time.

You see, it's speed that kills. Kinetic energy. Blows up organs, hemorrhaging, all that stuff. It's not grating your face on the concrete that kills you.

Relax, enjoy the ride and see the scenery. Have kids, grandkids, grow old. That's my wish for everyone on two wheels.
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Old 08-21-2011, 12:48 PM   #25
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Then you know that the amount of kinetic energy delivered to the areas not protected by a half helmet required to produce catastrophic damage are extremely low. It doesn't take ludicrous speed to do that. Running speed can be enough provided the delivery of the force is over a small enough area, but thanks for the physics lesson. The hit doesn't even have to come close to killing you to make you wish it did after a half dozen facial reconstruction surgeries to get you back together.

As a professional vehicle crash investigator it's interesting that you would still choose a half helmet despite having to know the large percentage chance of head impact coming around the chin area. It just goes to show that complacency can get to anyone given enough time with no incidents. Intelligence and professional experience serve us poorly when they are used to falsely inspire confidence that our riding ability or sub-speed limit velocities will permanently protect us from every other hazard out there.

The metric bike comparison is a poor argument at best. Most of the ones that are getting killed aren't wearing gear. Their lack of decision making abilities before they get on the bike don't get any better once they saddle up.

I'm curious to see what the statistics are in metro areas though. It sure seems like a lot of the summer deaths in the city have been cruisers, but I admit that's just what I remember.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:30 PM   #26
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I wear a full-face helmet because:
1) My head is not harder than the road. IMO
2) It has better abrasion resistance than my hair.
3) I can't dodge every bug and rock.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:45 PM   #27
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:46 PM   #28
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:56 PM   #29
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there is no use arguing about helmet use with some people.

I did see something in a news article somewhere not long ago where they are finding out just how useless those half-helmet "beanie" helmets the cruiser crowd wears just to satisfy local laws really are in a crash situation.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:05 PM   #30
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How's that saying go?

A head that's not worth protecting probably isn't...?
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusTEx View Post
How's that saying go?

A head that's not worth protecting probably isn't...?
Reminds me of the Bell helmet ad from years ago that said, "If you have a 10 dollar head buy a 10 dollar helmet".
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:43 PM   #32
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I cant be without my helmet,feels weird not wearing gear.Plus I match my helmets to the color of my bike.My gf and I have the same Joe Rocket jacket and matching white Shoei's.About 90% of the time when I ride shes with me and I like her having a face,heartbeat,skin without road rash,etc.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:46 PM   #33
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You guys have missed the part where I agree that a full face helmet offers better protection. If you read back, it's there, I assure you.

That said, I offered the reason why I choose to wear a half helmet, not being a snob or a about it. I wear a DOT half helmet, and simply offer that SPEED more than GEAR is the biggest killer. I have seen a lot of dead people wearing full face helmets, and there is one common denominator.

Quote:
Heres a pic of my helmet bro. if I had ahalf helmet id be screwed.
True.

Why did you crash? Then you have to ask yourself, whether your fault or not, could you have avoided it IF you were doing something different? THAT is the key to it all. Gear is important, but avoidance is more important.

I'm not asking you to answer me, I'm saying you have to ask YOURSELF those things.

Quote:
I'm curious to see what the statistics are in metro areas though. It sure seems like a lot of the summer deaths in the city have been cruisers, but I admit that's just what I remember.
Not true, I guarantee it. Vast majority are crotch rockets. By far. I can't tell you the ratio of cruisers to crotch rockets on the road, so the correlation may be off. I mean, if the ratio of crotch rocket owners to cruisers is 4-1, and the ratio of fatal accidents is 4-1 (which would be about my guess), then the percentage is equal. But I have mopped up many more crotch rockets than cruisers in my 25 year career. By far. It seems to me that people tend to ride them a lot faster than cruisers, which kind of just makes anecdotal sense, if you're being perfectly honest with yourself.

The common denominator on fatalities has never been gear. It's always been speed.

And by saying what I do, I'm not trying to dump on anyone or any group of people, I'm just talking about safety in general. More than expecting gear to keep you alive, slow down. Take it easy. Relax, grow old.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:57 PM   #34
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:05 PM   #35
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That's cool. I'm glad you're okay.
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morvegil View Post
No i couldnt have avoided it. I was in teh right lane the guy was 2 lanes over speeding twice the speed limit (60-70) then all o the sudden barrelled across 2 lands and clipped my front tire, i barely had enough time to hit teh brakes or I would have been tboning him. There was 5 witnesses there and even they said there was nothing I could of done.

Its like lightning, some things you cant avoid no matter how good you are.
+1 My accident back in 2008 with a drunk driver could not have been avoided based on his actions of pulling out literally in front of me and my friend with no time to react. Looking at the condition of my full face helmet there's a good chance I would not be here today if I had not been wearing it in that situation.

Regardless if you are the safest rider out there adhering to the speed limit and being defensive the actions of other drivers cannot be predicted at all times.
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:09 PM   #37
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speed isn't what kills during crashes.. it's the sudden, uncontrolled stop.

speed can lead to a loss of control by reducing the time the operator has to make decisions. sometimes drastically so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
You guys have missed the part where I agree that a full face helmet offers better protection. If you read back, it's there, I assure you.

That said, I offered the reason why I choose to wear a half helmet, not being a snob or a about it. I wear a DOT half helmet, and simply offer that SPEED more than GEAR is the biggest killer. I have seen a lot of dead people wearing full face helmets, and there is one common denominator.


True.

Why did you crash? Then you have to ask yourself, whether your fault or not, could you have avoided it IF you were doing something different? THAT is the key to it all. Gear is important, but avoidance is more important.

I'm not asking you to answer me, I'm saying you have to ask YOURSELF those things.


Not true, I guarantee it. Vast majority are crotch rockets. By far. I can't tell you the ratio of cruisers to crotch rockets on the road, so the correlation may be off. I mean, if the ratio of crotch rocket owners to cruisers is 4-1, and the ratio of fatal accidents is 4-1 (which would be about my guess), then the percentage is equal. But I have mopped up many more crotch rockets than cruisers in my 25 year career. By far. It seems to me that people tend to ride them a lot faster than cruisers, which kind of just makes anecdotal sense, if you're being perfectly honest with yourself.

The common denominator on fatalities has never been gear. It's always been speed.

And by saying what I do, I'm not trying to dump on anyone or any group of people, I'm just talking about safety in general. More than expecting gear to keep you alive, slow down. Take it easy. Relax, grow old.
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCLF Brain View Post
Yeah, okay, thanks.

By the way, my profession is a vehicle crash investigator, and I've been riding since I was 12. I'm now 48. I ride low and slow, I ride a cruiser, and I treat every cager around me like they're trying to kill me. If you see me on the road, you might mistake my bike for a La-Z-Boy recliner, because I'm kicked back and not in a hurry.

I'm not denying full face helmets offer extra protection, but the reduced awareness I get from one is not to my liking. If the ONLY extra risk I take is that I wear a half helmet as opposed to a full face helmet, then I assure you that I am a lot safer than most bikes on the road.

Many metric bikes gear up to the nines all purty and then ride it like they stole it. They try to be cool with speed, addicted to adrenalin. Those are the ones who die most, much more often than cruisers. I see it all. the. time.

You see, it's speed that kills. Kinetic energy. Blows up organs, hemorrhaging, all that stuff. It's not grating your face on the concrete that kills you.

Relax, enjoy the ride and see the scenery. Have kids, grandkids, grow old. That's my wish for everyone on two wheels.
My dad is an ER doctor. He disagrees with you. In fact, he disagrees so much that he's told me that the ONLY necessary gear is a full face helmet and body/chest protection, because you can live without your arms and legs.

That being said, he also chooses to ride sans gear on occasion. Must be a Harley thing. I think the decision to wear or not to wear gear is mostly based on what the other's around your wear/do.

As I've said many times before - I'm not going to tell anybody what to wear or how to ride. I'm a mom, but I'm not your mom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusTEx View Post
A head that's not worth protecting probably isn't.
Best quote ever.
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:35 PM   #39
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Here's an interesting study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811208.PDF

Quote:
In the data set, 57 percent of motorcyclists were helmeted at the time of the crashes and 43 percent were non-helmeted. For both groups, about 40 percent of motorcyclists were treated at hospitals or died following the crashes. However, 6.6 percent of unhelmeted motorcyclists suffered a moderate to severe head or facial injury compared to 5.1 percent of helmeted motorcyclists.
That 1.5% spread doesn't seem statistically significant. I guess if you're one of the 1.5% dead people it's incredibly significant, but I mean I really expected that number to be much higher.

Quote:
This increase has been especially marked among riders 40 and older, who now constitute approximately half of all deaths (NHTSA, 2008). In 1997, this older group accounted for 33 percent of rider deaths, but had grown to 49 percent by 2007. Although fatalities increased in all age groups, the largest increase has been in the group of riders over the age of 49; thus the mean age of fatally injured motorcyclists has increased from 29.3 in 1990 to 37.9 in 2002. The overall percentage of older riders involved in crashes has increased. While younger people are still riding motorcycles, they now constitute a smaller proportion of fatalities.
That's interesting. Maybe more older people are riding. Doesn't really address that. But I think the addition of safety courses for new riders has been a vast improvement. Still, on page 13, a chart that shows statistically, 20-29 year olds are having more accidents, but survive them more. I guess us older riders can't take the beatdown of a collision.

Here's another interesting stat -

Quote:
Slightly more crashes involved multiple vehicles (56.4%) compared to just the motorcycle (43.6%).
Wow, 43.6% of motorcycle crashes involve just the bike going down. Some avoidability there.

As I read around the report, there seems to be a general trend of face injuries in accidents being around 30% of the head injury. This seems to be right based on charts I've seen, which I can't locate right about now. So a full face helmet will be about 30% more effective at preventing overall injury than a half helmet. That's not preventing the more lethal traumatic brain injury (TBI), but just the face injury.

By far the most important thing out of the study was to wear a helmet, period. Wearing a helmet is crucial to prevent TBI, and increases survivability marginally.
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Old 08-21-2011, 06:08 PM   #40
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