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Old 08-04-2011, 08:50 AM   #41
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lol @ tailpipe emmisions saved.....
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:52 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Bike idling uses gas

Bike restarting uses LOTS of gas


Not much of a betting man, but it has to be a looonnnnggggg light to reap any benefits in economy from shutting it off.
Not so, another urban legend. Your payback time is probably ~10 seconds unless you like to unneedlessly rev the vehicle up after a restart.

If 10 seconds is a "looonnnnggggg" time I feel sorry for Mrs. po-po

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Old 08-04-2011, 11:34 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBullet View Post
Definitely gas to be saved by turning off the engine instead of sitting and idling. Doesn't matter if carb, FI, diesel, car or bike. Many cars and even a bike or two has this as an automatic on/off feature. Don't forget about the tailpipe emissions saved also.
Uh - no. The only cars that have that "feature" are hybrids, and the only reason they're able to do it is because they have very high torque starter motors which are designed for such a thing.

Precisely zero motorcycles for sale anywhere in the world have this "feature".

No - tail pipe emissions are not an issue. Not even close.

When you're sitting at a light idling for a few minutes, you're going to burn more fuel (and cause more wear and tear) by turning the bike off and back on than if you had just let it run. Never mind the risk you take at not being able to move.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:56 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Uh - no. The only cars that have that "feature" are hybrids, and the only reason they're able to do it is because they have very high torque starter motors which are designed for such a thing.

Precisely zero motorcycles for sale anywhere in the world have this "feature".

No - tail pipe emissions are not an issue. Not even close.

When you're sitting at a light idling for a few minutes, you're going to burn more fuel (and cause more wear and tear) by turning the bike off and back on than if you had just let it run. Never mind the risk you take at not being able to move.
Good points but there are some non hybrid cars that have the on/off feature. I think most are European BMWs and some Audis. Here's an article about the 2011 M3 that gets the "fuel-saving auto start/stop feature".
Ford is going to join the club: http://content.usatoday.com/communit...all-vehicles/1

Last edited by Stromtrooper; 08-04-2011 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:56 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Uh - no. The only cars that have that "feature" are hybrids, and the only reason they're able to do it is because they have very high torque starter motors which are designed for such a thing.

Precisely zero motorcycles for sale anywhere in the world have this "feature".

No - tail pipe emissions are not an issue. Not even close.

When you're sitting at a light idling for a few minutes, you're going to burn more fuel (and cause more wear and tear) by turning the bike off and back on than if you had just let it run. Never mind the risk you take at not being able to move.
You state four things all of which are untrue:

Plenty of non hybrids have this feature. One post up for a couple examples and there are many more.

Motorcycles which have this feature. Here is a link to one, a mass produced Honda.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...cx-first-ride/

Idling emissions not an issue? How is that? Imagine breathing the air at this stop light, now picture same stoplight with all vehicle engines not running. Big freaking difference.
ImageHandler 7

Again people idling burns fuel, engine turned off does not. Miniscule amount of extra fuel is used to restart a warm engine. About equal to 10 seconds of idling. Not advocating people to shut down their bike at lights but the fact is it will save fuel.

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Old 08-04-2011, 04:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBullet View Post
You state four things all of which are untrue:

Plenty of non hybrids have this feature. One post up for a couple examples and there are many more.

Motorcycles which have this feature. Here is a link to one, a mass produced Honda.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...cx-first-ride/

Idling emissions not an issue? How is that? Imagine breathing the air at this stop light, now picture same stoplight with all vehicle engines not running. Big freaking difference.
ImageHandler 7

Again people idling burns fuel, engine turned off does not. Miniscule amount of extra fuel is used to restart a warm engine. About equal to 10 seconds of idling. Not advocating people to shut down their bike at lights but the fact is it will save fuel.

_


_
Apparently my information was out of date as all of these are new models.

Just to nit-pick - the "motorcycle" you linked to is a scooter.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #47
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:34 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Apparently my information was out of date as all of these are new models.

Just to nit-pick - the "motorcycle" you linked to is a scooter.
Not nit-picking, this is a valid comment. Reason you'll mainly see this feature on scooters is very few full sized bikes have CVT trannys and twist 'n go throttles. Would be much more complex to safely design a start/stop feature on a bike with a clutch.

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Old 08-05-2011, 07:37 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBullet View Post
Not so, another urban legend. Your payback time is probably ~10 seconds unless you like to unneedlessly rev the vehicle up after a restart.

If 10 seconds is a "looonnnnggggg" time I feel sorry for Mrs. po-po

_

Have any proof of this? Every guide to tuning and ECU logic I've ever seen has included hot start enrichment that lasts longer than 10 seconds, AND that doesn't even include starting fuel which is significantly more than idle fuel. I have to imagine that, unless you have a study to back your info up, that ~10 seconds is way too short.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:12 AM   #50
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The amount of gas you would save at a light would probably be used up the first time you rolled the throttle to pass somebody....
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Have any proof of this? Every guide to tuning and ECU logic I've ever seen has included hot start enrichment that lasts longer than 10 seconds, AND that doesn't even include starting fuel which is significantly more than idle fuel. I have to imagine that, unless you have a study to back your info up, that ~10 seconds is way too short.
Well all major manufacturers are using this in some models so I'm sure they have the studies out the ying yang.

My real world study was just performed 30 minutes ago.

Car at full operating temperature
A/C off, idling in neutral
fuel usage is 0.17 gallons per hour
turn off car
restart car without touching gas pedal
fuel usage increases to 0.30gph
fuel usage immediately starts going down incrementally (after 1 sec 0.24gph, 2 sec 0.21, 3 sec 0.19, etc)
after 4 seconds back to original 0.17gph

I repeated this test 3 times and very similar each time. Highest reading was 0.18gph before and 0.34gph after. Time was always the same, back to normal idling gph within 4 seconds.

So the conservative calculation is that it takes the same amount of "extra" gas to start my car as the car uses to idle for 2-3 seconds.

This was done with a ScanGauge II which is a OBDII plug in gauge. This gauge calculates my mpg per tank usually within 2% accuracy to actual at the pump/odometer calculations.

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Old 08-05-2011, 10:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Kid View Post
The amount of gas you would save at a light would probably be used up the first time you rolled the throttle to pass somebody....
That is true. And if you didn't save that amount of gas at the light to roll on your throttle where would it come from? Add up all your stops (don't forget drive thru's also) over say one month and quantify the amount of gas saved. Who would not go to ABC gas station once a month to pump one free gallon of gas?

Like I said before I don't advocate this and nobody I know rides a bike soley for gas savings. If we did it would have to be a very small bike as cars today can be more economical than most bikes. But facts are this does save gas and emissions and it will probably trickle down to most models of vehicles before too long.

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