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Old 06-29-2011, 08:04 AM   #21
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:16 AM   #22
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:52 AM   #23
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blanket management. it never works.


read an article that cali will ban the sale of violent games to kids...
how come parents are not responsibile for parenting?

people you have to take responsibility for yourself
Thankfully the US Supreme Court told California to go themselves on that law.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:53 AM   #24
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The author of the article got exactly what he wanted, a mess of e-thuggery.

If we want to avoid that hypothetical day when motorcycles are banned, maybe as a community bikers should support sensible legislation and restrictions. We don't have the numbers, resources, or arguments to continue thumbing our nose at reasonable suggestions like the NRA, and we shouldn't act like it. If we preempt criticism and restriction with sensible proposals we will be able to continue enjoying our hobby without heavy handed governmental interference.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:55 AM   #25
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An ignorant with an opinion column. This is shocking news and should be taken very seriously.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:01 AM   #26
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I'd go for a tiered system.

The truth of the matter is, LOTS of bikers give us a bad name. The squids, loud pipes, weaving in/out of traffic, accidents like "I know so and so who got killed on a bike so they are all dangerous bla bla"- give motorcycling its stigma.

Some people just don't flat out understand, or care to figure out our passion. For those on the edge, we need to be a champion for all motorcyclists. Be open, be polite, answer questions, educate others (withour preaching), etc. One charming motorcyclist can go a long way towards erasing years bad motorcyclists doing their thing.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:40 AM   #27
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some one needs to give that fat pice of a bike and see why we really ride for...
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #28
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now on top of that.. I never seen a motorcycle KILL anyone else but him self, so how does that put in danger others?? but then AGAIN... Anything is possible.
I know, I know.. it could cause an accident but I've been riding for a little over 3yrs and not long enough to probably see that.

we always read... RIP threads about a rider that was been stupid and killed him self or he felt off the freeway or a car pulled in front of him.. but never seen him(the rider) cause the death of a person on a nother vehicle.

there are so many stupid kids on bikes with no gear but thats another story.

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Old 06-29-2011, 09:52 AM   #29
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ITT: people outrage at the idea of banning motorcycles in the name of safety days after championing the idea of banning helmet less riding in the name of safety. Strong logic, brahs.
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he's a viking accountant. he looks at the bottom line, then he yells at it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:03 AM   #30
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ITT: people outrage at the idea of banning motorcycles in the name of safety days after championing the idea of banning helmet less riding in the name of safety. Strong logic, brahs.
Not all slopes are slippery, and maximal freedom is being alone on a desert island, which would suck.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:12 AM   #31
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Not all slopes are slippery, and maximal freedom is being alone on a desert island, which would suck.
Are you dumb or just trolling?

Essentially every slope is slippery. If you can justify one action using a certain cause, you can justify the next very similar action using the same cause for concern. Regardless of whether it's slippery or not, once you start down it, it's unlikely you're turning back around to come back up.

That would be total isolation. Freedom is to make your own choices for your own life without infringing on another's opportunity to do the same. I know that you know that, so don't play dumb.
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I always thought speedcheeser was a meth head with a fondness for dairy products.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:35 AM   #32
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Are you dumb or just trolling?

Essentially every slope is slippery. If you can justify one action using a certain cause, you can justify the next very similar action using the same cause for concern. Regardless of whether it's slippery or not, once you start down it, it's unlikely you're turning back around to come back up.

That would be total isolation. Freedom is to make your own choices for your own life without infringing on another's opportunity to do the same. I know that you know that, so don't play dumb.
This is a dumb thread, so I felt like playing dumb and trolling.

Yes, every slope is slippery to the extent that you can take the basic logic and iterate it to an absurd end result. The problem with all the slippery slope arguments here is they assume that the premise is: "risk should be minimized to the greatest extent possible by governmental action." The premise I'm using is: "risk should be minimized to the greatest extent possible by governmental action that isn't unreasonably restrictive." That slope ends well before motorcycles are banned.

I visualize the first premise as a single downward moving line, with the terminal point being the elimination of risk. The second premise I visualize as two lines, one descending, one ascending, with the intersection being the point where additional regulation becomes unreasonable.

Before the objectivist clown car rolls in, I'm assuming governmental action because anything else is a pipe-dream.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:47 AM   #33
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This is a dumb thread, so I felt like playing dumb and trolling.

Yes, every slope is slippery to the extent that you can take the basic logic and iterate it to an absurd end result. The problem with all the slippery slope arguments here is they assume that the premise is: "risk should be minimized to the greatest extent possible by governmental action." The premise I'm using is: "risk should be minimized to the greatest extent possible by governmental action that isn't unreasonably restrictive." That slope ends well before motorcycles are banned.

I visualize the first premise as a single downward moving line, with the terminal point being the elimination of risk. The second premise I visualize as two lines, one descending, one ascending, with the intersection being the point where additional regulation becomes unreasonable.

Before the objectivist clown car rolls in, I'm assuming governmental action because anything else is a pipe-dream.
"Unreasonably restrictive" is VERY subjective and will vary greatly from one person to the next. Having that ascending line is just as good as not having it at all, as it will be shifted left or right or at a steeper or less steep slope, depending on who's presenting the graph.

Unreasonably restrictive is (should be) restricting anything that is solely a personal choice, such as whether or not one should wear a helmet. That choice doesn't directly affect anyone other than the person who made it.
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I always thought speedcheeser was a meth head with a fondness for dairy products.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:02 AM   #34
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"Unreasonably restrictive" is VERY subjective and will vary greatly from one person to the next. Having that ascending line is just as good as not having it at all, as it will be shifted left or right or at a steeper or less steep slope, depending on who's presenting the graph.

Unreasonably restrictive is (should be) restricting anything that is solely a personal choice, such as whether or not one should wear a helmet. That choice doesn't directly affect anyone other than the person who made it.
There is no way for it to be anything but subjective, because there is no constitutional backstop for arguments involving risk and motorcycles. That is why I think we, as a community, should be involved in setting up restrictions that are reasonable in our eyes.

I could buy into the notion that we should be free to act in ways that don't affect others. However, when that notion runs into the reality that our society has determined single vehicle accidents affect others, I've got to side with reality. I live there, after all.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:05 AM   #35
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There is no way for it to be anything but subjective, because there is no constitutional backstop for arguments involving risk and motorcycles. That is why I think we, as a community, should be involved in setting up restrictions that are reasonable in our eyes.

I could buy into the notion that we should be free to act in ways that don't affect others. However, when that notion runs into the reality that our society has determined single vehicle accidents affect others, I've got to side with reality. I live there, after all.
Society is stupid and you're stupid for letting society determine the reality of the situation for you. WWJD?
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:15 AM   #36
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Society is stupid and you're stupid for letting society determine the reality of the situation for you. WWJD?
Go play in galt's gulch, I'm sure it's much nicer than reality.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:19 AM   #37
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There is no way for it to be anything but subjective, because there is no constitutional backstop for arguments involving risk and motorcycles. That is why I think we, as a community, should be involved in setting up restrictions that are reasonable in our eyes.

I could buy into the notion that we should be free to act in ways that don't affect others. However, when that notion runs into the reality that our society has determined single vehicle accidents affect others, I've got to side with reality. I live there, after all.
Single vehicle accidents may have an impact on society. Wearing or not wearing a helmet does not prevent a single vehicle accident, nor is it the cause of such. Helmets may prevent injuries and/or death as a result of the accident. Enacting a law to require a helmet is treating a symptom, not the cause. In other words: unreasonably restrictive.

If you're going to be like others and say that the resultant medical costs and insurance premiums that society bares are the negative impact to society, then that's a problem with the medical cost and insurance system, not the activity.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:24 AM   #38
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mandatory helmet laws have happened before and will again.

hard to argue with statistics that show that since helmet laws were repealed more people are dying from motorcycle accidents.

The proof is in the numbers and some high level officials are noticing it.

But, I know several people who still won't wear a seat belt while in their vehicle.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:27 AM   #39
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since helmet laws were repealed more people are dying from motorcycle accidents.
And?
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:51 AM   #40
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Go play in galt's gulch, I'm sure it's much nicer than reality.
You mean Ouray, CO? I hear it's both real and nice!
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