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Old 06-14-2011, 04:59 PM   #281
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:00 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
Why? Especially if it could be proven that brown shoes on Tuesday were safer...

No - that was kinda my point. You were relying upon some statistical claim that helmets were safer. I presented an alternate statistical claim. Now, we're supposed to simply ignore mine?

Why not? If your only argument in favor of a helmet law is "Its safer", then when the same argument is thrown back at you regarding leathers, you wouldn't really have anything to say other than what I'm saying - it is MY choice, and it should remain so.

Again - wrong question. It isnt a matter of harm in wearing one. It is the harm of requiring me to do so.

It also might end it.

Irrelevant. There are other ways to address that which do not require infringing upon my rights. Many of those have been covered in this very discussion.

And it might not - of course, requiring me to wear full leathers, or better yet, not ride a motorcycle at all would give the same results. Besides, they dont wash the brains off ...much, and traffic is traffic. Accidents happen and saying that it might reduce the amount of time someone may have to wait after I'm dead and gone is a pretty lame argument.

Again - covered.

And, once again, how does my choice to NOT wear one affect YOU directly?

No, you've given many emotionally driven responses which you have not totally thought out. This is not the same as a reason. I'm still waiting for a direct answer to my question. How does someone's choice to not wear one harm you directly? Not how MIGHT it, but how DOES it. They are two different things.

That's a good enough reason as any. I do believe we started a country based on that very thing...

Ah - so basically you're saying that since the road is paid for by your taxes as well as mine that my opinion doesn't matter because you don't actually care?

Jesus. You replied to every word?

I see a common theme here. 'Freedom', 'rights', 'Constitution', blah blah blah. This basically boils down to "because I don't wanna wear one". I've answered you and you keep asking me the same question over and over. I told you how not wearing a helmet affects me. You guys take something like a simple helmet law (which is reasonable) and stretch it "Liberty and the freedom" and "I'll dress how I want". Take it easy on the paranoia.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:00 PM   #283
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Not sure what a whit a head is, but if its race that shouldnt be a factor. A helmet will not leave as much of a mess to clean up. The mess would take longer to clean up and that would effect traffic. I don't think a helmet would cause strucural damage to a roadway do you?
more than a head/skull would... and effect is negligable, just like brain matter vs blood, oil & gas. Meaning a head injury is not going to have any real impact on clean up time.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:00 PM   #284
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:02 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEN600 View Post
Not sure what a whit a head is, but if its race that shouldnt be a factor. A helmet will not leave as much of a mess to clean up. The mess would take longer to clean up and that would effect traffic. I don't think a helmet would cause strucural damage to a roadway do you?
1) www.dictionary.com

2) If the potential for post-accident mess is your only argument, you may as well bow out now.

3) The word you were looking for was "affect" not "effect".
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #286
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
Jesus. You replied to every word?

I see a common theme here. 'Freedom', 'rights', 'Constitution', blah blah blah. This basically boils down to "because I don't wanna wear one". I've answered you and you keep asking me the same question over and over. I told you how not wearing a helmet affects me. You guys take something like a simple helmet law (which is reasonable) and stretch it "Liberty and the freedom" and "I'll dress how I want". Take it easy on the paranoia.
There's no paranoia, just somone who apparently has issues with reading comprehension as demonstrated in ^.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:04 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
Jesus. You replied to every word?
No - just broke it down into sections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
I see a common theme here. 'Freedom', 'rights', 'Constitution', blah blah blah. This basically boils down to "because I don't wanna wear one". I've answered you and you keep asking me the same question over and over. I told you how not wearing a helmet affects me. You guys take something like a simple helmet law (which is reasonable) and stretch it "Liberty and the freedom" and "I'll dress how I want". Take it easy on the paranoia.
So in short, you don't give a about your freedoms, so we shouldn't care about ours? Is that it?

Seriously?

You consider "freedom" to be a poor argument as to why the government shouldn't do something?

Wow...just wow...
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:05 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
No, really it didn't.

That's right - the people do. Guess what? I'm one of those people. Do I not have a say? Can I not argue against it?

Listen to everything you're saying. It all comes down to one thing: Because government said so. Then you try everything you can to rationalize the dictate from Austin.

You ridicule those who are arguing in favor of freedom and tell them to shut the up because freedom isn't good enough.

You say buy your own roads and do what you want but if you want to drive on public roads, you must submit.

Really?

Now look at the other side of the aisle. We're simply asking WHY? How does it harm YOU? No orders. No dictates. No fascist or authoritarian attitude.

Once you start supporting one level of government overreach, it becomes increasingly difficult to argue against the next level.

You say that full leathers would never be required - well, all i have to say to THAT is, "smoking legislation".
Nobody said you couldn't argue against it. Where'd you get that from?

No, it comes down to safety.

I didn't ridicule anyone. I haven't personally attacked anyone. Read again.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:08 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
No - just broke it down into sections.

So in short, you don't give a about your freedoms, so we shouldn't care about ours? Is that it?

Seriously?

You consider "freedom" to be a poor argument as to why the government shouldn't do something?

Wow...just wow...
No, I consider "freedom" to be a poor argument against helmet laws. I said that on page one.

If you want to start another topic about "Freedom" and the government's abuse of power then we can talk about it there.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:12 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
Nobody said you couldn't argue against it. Where'd you get that from?
From the fact that you ridicule "freedom" as an argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
No, it comes down to safety.
If it comes down to safety, then you could tell us all how it affects YOUR safety if I choose not to wear one.

The only arguments you've given come down to money, not safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
I didn't ridicule anyone. I haven't personally attacked anyone. Read again.
I have. Repeatedly. Perhaps your comprehension skills are so poor you don't even realize what you've written?

Allow me to direct you here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
I see a common theme here. 'Freedom', 'rights', 'Constitution', blah blah blah. This basically boils down to "because I don't wanna wear one". I've answered you and you keep asking me the same question over and over. I told you how not wearing a helmet affects me. You guys take something like a simple helmet law (which is reasonable) and stretch it "Liberty and the freedom" and "I'll dress how I want". Take it easy on the paranoia.
THAT, my friend, is ridicule and condescension.

"I don't want to" is a valid reason - that's what you keep missing. In this country, I do not (yet) have to justify why I wish to do something which does not directly harm another. On the other hand, to restrict my rights, you have to demonstrate why my choice is directly harming another, and further, prove that ONLY by restricting that choice can the harm be stopped.

You have not done that.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:14 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
No, I consider "freedom" to be a poor argument against helmet laws. I said that on page one.

If you want to start another topic about "Freedom" and the government's abuse of power then we can talk about it there.
Yet isn't riding all about the freedom in and of itself?

As I said my friend, if the only argument you have for helmet laws is "well, it doesnt hurt you to wear one", you're in for a rude shock when leathers become required equipment...
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:17 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by honorsdaddy View Post
From the fact that you ridicule "freedom" as an argument.

If it comes down to safety, then you could tell us all how it affects YOUR safety if I choose not to wear one.

The only arguments you've given come down to money, not safety.

I have. Repeatedly. Perhaps your comprehension skills are so poor you don't even realize what you've written?
Allow me to direct you here:



THAT, my friend, is ridicule and condescension.

"I don't want to" is a valid reason - that's what you keep missing. In this country, I do not (yet) have to justify why I wish to do something which does not directly harm another. On the other hand, to restrict my rights, you have to demonstrate why my choice is directly harming another, and further, prove that ONLY by restricting that choice can the harm be stopped.

You have not done that.
No I don't. Read #290.

Already explained how helmets and traffic laws effect everyone, not just the individual.

You accused me of ridicule before I posted that. Besides, that's not ridicule. I've underlined ridicule for you. You've already posted 4-5 personal insults, 1 is above. I'm not sure why you're pointing this out.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:17 PM   #294
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:19 PM   #295
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Yet isn't riding all about the freedom in and of itself?

As I said my friend, if the only argument you have for helmet laws is "well, it doesnt hurt you to wear one", you're in for a rude shock when leathers become required equipment...
Riding is different things to different people.

It's not the only argument. I've posted lots of arguments for helmet laws. If I have to wear leathers to ride my bike then I'll do it. But it'll never happen.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:21 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadseasoN View Post
Riding is different things to different people.

It's not the only argument. I've posted lots of arguments for helmet laws. If I have to wear leathers to ride my bike then I'll do it. But it'll never happen.
So you'll do as you're told and consider those who still value their freedom to choose to be paranoid.

Hm...why do i smell mutton?
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:28 PM   #297
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So you'll do as you're told and consider those who still value their freedom to choose to be paranoid.
No, I never said or meant that.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:31 PM   #298
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Quote:
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No, I never said or meant that.
You may not have said the exact words, or meant the sentiment but you certainly did convey that impression.

You've said, and I quote, ""Liberty and the freedom" and "I'll dress how I want". Take it easy on the paranoia." and "If I have to wear leathers to ride my bike then I'll do it."

Now, if you didn't mean to imply that those who value freedom are paranoid and that you wont do as you're told, perhaps you could clarify?
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:36 PM   #299
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You may not have said the exact words, or meant the sentiment but you certainly did convey that impression.

You've said, and I quote, ""Liberty and the freedom" and "I'll dress how I want". Take it easy on the paranoia." and "If I have to wear leathers to ride my bike then I'll do it."

Now, if you didn't mean to imply that those who value freedom are paranoid and that you wont do as you're told, perhaps you could clarify?
Already clarified what I meant.

Maybe you can clarify this, how does someone who is a big outlaw and thinks he should have freedom and rights get off on posting "rules" for PP1 parking lot? AND AGREES WITH THE RULES? Telling people how to park, pick up trash, etc, at a parking lot where bikers have been going WAYYY before you even thought about MH? Please explain.

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Old 06-14-2011, 05:40 PM   #300
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It should be your choice to wear a helmet or not.

By the same token, I can call you an ignorant dumb for not wearing one... and those half-helmet skull caps are just worthless.

There are so many other things going on right now concerning personal freedom and the basic existance of our country I would think you could find a more suitable soapbox.. rather than "your personal freedom to not wear a helmet".
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