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Old 06-13-2011, 12:19 PM   #61
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The very bottom line here is that if your not intelligent enough to take advantage of certain safety measures, such as wearing a helmet, it is on you! Unless you are completely retarded, the individual MUST have some kind of idea that their head isn't harder than pavement. It makes me sick to my stomach that people feel like it is the government's job to be a life coach. WTF ever happened to personal responsibility for oneself.
Semi-socialized medicine, false entitlement to above and beyond healthcare, redistribution of wealth, obtuse amuricun attitudes. Lots of reasons. If my tax dollars are gonna pay for your stupidity, I should have a vote on how to control your stupidity.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:58 PM   #62
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Sucks for the rider. Hope it doesn't have to wind up a RIP thread and he learns from his mistakes. Let us know if anymore details come up.

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Encouragement is what got a jacket on me. I just needed to hear it from somebody else like me.
Quoted for irony.

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Because the government, and you, pick up the tab from the county hospital when someone gets horrible head injuries. And what about all of the people that get left behind when a rider goes down? The emotional and financial trauma that follows a rider down is horrible and terrifying.

Akin to not wearing a seatbelt, there is no defenseable position one can take to say that helmet laws would not save lives. What downside is there? The government is not mandating full leathers, gloves, jacket, and boots. They are not saying you have to drive a Volvo with airbags or that your car has to meet some unreasonable safety standard. They are saying that people must do the one thing that's gonna save there , put on a helmet/seatbelt.

When evaluating laws, you must look for the harms. Who does a helmet law harm?
It harms the freedom of choice and personal responsibility. Requiring a helmet law probably would reduce the amount of motorcycle related deaths. But who the cares? A couple years down the line, people will either forget or ignore the time before the helmet requirement was a law, and still look to people dying on motorcycles as too high. Then they start placing caps on engine size, or just outright ban them all together for use on public roads. Then what? Will you still be saying "Oh well, it saves lives. Tee hee!"

A helmet law does nothing to protect an innocent party from the actions of another, and is therefore a bullshit law.

As for tax dollars going towards medical expenses, in TX, aren't you required to have medical insurance on your policy if you want to ride with no helmet? Or is that only for a certain group? I forget. THAT would be the sort of law that protects the average tax payer.

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EPA, FDA, USDA... do I need to go on?
The big difference being that those agencies protect consumers from an industry, not an individual from himself.
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:50 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Grimace View Post
I wish like they would come out with a line of full faced helmets that actually looked right for riders on cruisers. I bet it would make a difference, at least for some. Of course that means I am assuming this guy was on a cruiser.
As someone who wears both FF and 3/4 helmets, and rides a cruiser, I can tell you for me, the choice is based largely on outside temperature.

With the large fairing/windshield, I don't get quite as much air flow as most of you do and when it gets above 75 or so, it can get uncomfortably hot inside a full-face helmet.
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:54 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Perf_White_GT View Post
I would support a helmet law returning.

sometimes people need a law just for their own good ie: seatbelt laws.
No thanks. I'm an adult. I'll make my own decisions, thank you.

When you pay my bills, you can make decisions for me. Deal?
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:02 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by kyote View Post
Because the government, and you, pick up the tab from the county hospital when someone gets horrible head injuries.
If you think, real hard, I'm pretty sure you can come up with a way to reduce those costs that doesn't infringe upon someone's rights...
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And what about all of the people that get left behind when a rider goes down? The emotional and financial trauma that follows a rider down is horrible and terrifying.
What about them? Not my problem. Why should MY rights be restricted?
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Originally Posted by kyote View Post
Akin to not wearing a seatbelt, there is no defenseable position one can take to say that helmet laws would not save lives.
There doesn't need to be. Government doesn't have the authority to dictate what I wear.
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Originally Posted by kyote View Post
What downside is there?
Restriction of my freedoms?
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Originally Posted by kyote View Post
The government is not mandating full leathers, gloves, jacket, and boots.
Not YET.
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Originally Posted by kyote View Post
They are not saying you have to drive a Volvo with airbags or that your car has to meet some unreasonable safety standard.
No, but that raises an interesting point right there...

You realize EVERYTHING has airbags now, right? And ABS? And TPS? And next year (2012) is going to require VSC?

That's what happens when you give government the tacit permission to mandate things in the name of your own safety.
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They are saying that people must do the one thing that's gonna save there , put on a helmet/seatbelt.
It isn't guaranteed to save your .

Yes, 40% of all motorcycle deaths last year involved riders not wearing a helmet.

What does that mean the other 60% WERE wearing?
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When evaluating laws, you must look for the harms.
You must also look at the costs, the ways the law could be misused, whether or not it actually is needed, and if the government has the authority to make such a law.
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Who does a helmet law harm?
Everyone - by expanding government authority into areas it has no business being.
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:05 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perf_White_GT View Post
I wish I could use informal fallacies in more arguments. How about this. SHOW ME PROOF that enacting seatbelt laws has led to other laws about automobiles.
Sure. What would you like?

Bear in mind the myriad of safety requirements in cars now - all of which started with seatbelts.

First it was mandating the car had them. Then there was a mandate for shoulder belts. Then shoulder belts in the rear too. Then headrests. Then shoulder belts in ALL seating positions. Then child safety seat anchors. Then ABS. Then airbags.

You REALLY want me to go on?

What would you accept as proof?
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:46 PM   #67
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Sure. What would you like?

Bear in mind the myriad of safety requirements in cars now - all of which started with seatbelts.

First it was mandating the car had them. Then there was a mandate for shoulder belts. Then shoulder belts in the rear too. Then headrests. Then shoulder belts in ALL seating positions. Then child safety seat anchors. Then ABS. Then airbags.

You REALLY want me to go on?

What would you accept as proof?
I will though say best of luck to the rider.
Some of you guys and your posts are making me giggle at work, stop it right now. I really love how everyone thinks the helmet law is stupid. Almost willing to bet almost 100% of the 40% dead rider have families that would argue on that one. I am not in support of the government telling us what to do, but considering 95% of America is sheep, why not. Act like a wolf if you want. I encourage it, but just because you do, does not mean the other sheep will. And for some of you to say its OK, let them die. off. I thought most of you were better people than that.


honor this is not an attack on you, most of the time I think you and I see eye to eye.. This time I will agree to disagree with 80% of this thread.
Prayers sent for speedy recovery for the rider.
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:54 PM   #68
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I will though say best of luck to the rider.
Some of you guys and your posts are making me giggle at work, stop it right now. I really love how everyone thinks the helmet law is stupid. Almost willing to bet almost 100% of the 40% dead rider have families that would argue on that one. I am not in support of the government telling us what to do, but considering 95% of America is sheep, why not. Act like a wolf if you want. I encourage it, but just because you do, does not mean the other sheep will. And for some of you to say its OK, let them die. off. I thought most of you were better people than that.


honor this is not an attack on you, most of the time I think you and I see eye to eye.. This time I will agree to disagree with 80% of this thread.
Prayers sent for speedy recovery for the rider.

That is sheep talk right there.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:06 PM   #69
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sheep is more like it
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:12 PM   #70
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That is sheep talk right there.


Lol think what you want blue. I am far more a non sheep than anyone on here will ever know
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:15 PM   #71
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I will though say best of luck to the rider.
Some of you guys and your posts are making me giggle at work, stop it right now. I really love how everyone thinks the helmet law is stupid. Almost willing to bet almost 100% of the 40% dead rider have families that would argue on that one. I am not in support of the government telling us what to do, but considering 95% of America is sheep, why not. Act like a wolf if you want. I encourage it, but just because you do, does not mean the other sheep will. And for some of you to say its OK, let them die. off. I thought most of you were better people than that.
Go be a sheep somewhere else.

Some of us are smart enough to make responsible decision for ourselves without the government forcing it down our throats. So what if those families thinks it would be a good law? I'm sure there are many that would thinking banning motorcycles outright would be a good law too. It's pure stupidity. This kind of stupid thinking is why you can't find prostitutes, can't gamble, can't buy beer after midnight or liquor on Sunday, etc. etc. - because somebody else thought they knew what was best for you, and you don't.

And yeah, if someone wants to WILLINGLY participate in KNOWN risky behavior without taking any steps to prevent injury or mitigate the risk, then it's no one's fault but their own when the ultimate ending comes around. I won't wish it on any of them, but what are you really supposed to say to them?
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:22 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbleassassin View Post
I am not in support of the government telling us what to do, but considering 95% of America is sheep, why not.
I'm not in support of blaming the Jews for everything this country has done wrong, but considering 95% of the people don't have a problem with it, why not?

Same mentality, my friend - and it was just as disgusting then.
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Act like a wolf if you want.
I consider it being a free and thinking man, but so be it.
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I encourage it, but just because you do, does not mean the other sheep will.
No, they wont. They'll just go along with what someone else says to do. Making them stop and think is part of my job as a free and intelligent person with the desire to act for himself. There are some nascent wolves in that herd of sheep...
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And for some of you to say its OK, let them die. off. I thought most of you were better people than that.
Would you rather someone died being happy doing what he loved, or being miserable getting whatever enjoyment he was still permitted to have in what he once loved?
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honor this is not an attack on you, most of the time I think you and I see eye to eye.. This time I will agree to disagree with 80% of this thread.
Prayers sent for speedy recovery for the rider.
I dont take it as an attack, but thank you.
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:18 PM   #73
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Sure. What would you like?

Bear in mind the myriad of safety requirements in cars now - all of which started with seatbelts.

First it was mandating the car had them. Then there was a mandate for shoulder belts. Then shoulder belts in the rear too. Then headrests. Then shoulder belts in ALL seating positions. Then child safety seat anchors. Then ABS. Then airbags.

You REALLY want me to go on?

What would you accept as proof?
And I support those laws as well. Click it or ticket. Dont wanna wear a seatbelt, then pay up.

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Old 06-13-2011, 06:07 PM   #74
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Lol think what you want blue. I am far more a non sheep than anyone on here will ever know
With so many contradictions in your statements, I'm not sure what to think of you.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:11 PM   #75
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Tofu.

The goverment should regulate that we all must eat Tofu.

Heart attacks and obesity are bad for the economy.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:18 PM   #76
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Tofu.

The goverment should regulate that we all must eat Tofu.

Heart attacks and obesity are bad for the economy.
A little Tony Chachere's and tofu ain't half bad...
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:28 PM   #77
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With so many contradictions in your statements, I'm not sure what to think of you.
just know I <3 you Blue. your helping me with my health issues
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:09 AM   #78
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just know I <3 you Blue. your helping me with my health issues
When we get those levels straight you will no longer be sheepish
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:13 AM   #79
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A little Tony Chachere's and tofu ain't half bad...
Wow, haven't read this since the first page.... .

There was a cafe in Manatou Springs that made a of a tofu breakfast burritto.... Mmmmmm.....

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