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Old 06-12-2011, 02:45 PM   #41
Grimace
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+1

And I hate it that it has come to this. I do not like being in a nanny state but I am tired of seeing people not realizing the potential severity of their actions. Just because I and Grimace understand it... it doesn't mean others do. Not too many folks get on a bike with the intent of crashing. It just takes one crash to end it all.

I even thought I was invincible at one time. I only had on a helmet and jeans for years. It wasn't until I came to MotoHouston a few years ago that I even thought twice about gear. I used to incorrectly think that the fellas wearing gear just wanted race and I didn't want to be that guy. I love racing but I have never raced on the street other than a few quick bursts with my dad. I admittedly ride fast but I do all of that solo when I feel it to be safer. I dont like jail too much. The point is... I saw no need for a jacket or gloves since I didn't race on the streets.

Thanks to MotoHouston for getting some gear on me before it was too late. 11 yrs gearless/5 yrs geared up.
Guess my last post won't be going over too well

it, with you and you alone I call truce just cause you got a good sense of humor.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:47 PM   #42
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And if they tried to outlaw bikes in our best interest? How about without a rubber? Why can people not see we make our own choices. We don't need law to govern every thing we do. You want to outlaw choice?
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:47 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Encouragement is the way to go on so many things, helmets especially. Trying to tell people "you have to ____" usually just puts people on the defensive. We've tried the helmet law, and what I saw was large numbers of pudding cups - halfshell helmets that neither cover the likely impact areas nor have any real protection value. This was simply the lawmakers saying "well, we made a law. Happy now?". I say, it didn't work.

Now, take Billy Bob Biker at the Bar. Should he show up and see his fellow Harley riders wearing full face helmets, in black 'n orange with HD logos, eagle icons and whatnot - guess what, now Billy Bob wants one too. It's what all the rebels and outlaws are doing thesedays, right?

Peer pressure will do what "them stinkin' rules from those yazoos up on capit'l hill" won't.
Encouragement is what got a jacket on me. I just needed to hear it from somebody else like me.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:49 PM   #44
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And if they tried to outlaw bikes in our best interest? How about without a rubber? Why can people not see we make our own choices. We don't need law to govern every thing we do. You want to outlaw choice?
The government has done an excellent job of conditioning how people think. Sad but true.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:52 PM   #45
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The government has done an excellent job of conditioning how people think. Sad but true.
Yes it is very sad. It's sad that many seem oblivious to the conditioning.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:53 PM   #46
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Guess my last post won't be going over too well

it, with you and you alone I call truce just cause you got a good sense of humor.


You and me are good.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:36 PM   #47
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And if they tried to outlaw bikes in our best interest? How about without a rubber? Why can people not see we make our own choices. We don't need law to govern every thing we do. You want to outlaw choice?
Because the government, and you, pick up the tab from the county hospital when someone gets horrible head injuries. And what about all of the people that get left behind when a rider goes down? The emotional and financial trauma that follows a rider down is horrible and terrifying.

Akin to not wearing a seatbelt, there is no defenseable position one can take to say that helmet laws would not save lives. What downside is there? The government is not mandating full leathers, gloves, jacket, and boots. They are not saying you have to drive a Volvo with airbags or that your car has to meet some unreasonable safety standard. They are saying that people must do the one thing that's gonna save there , put on a helmet/seatbelt.

When evaluating laws, you must look for the harms. Who does a helmet law harm?
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:04 PM   #48
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Because the government, and you, pick up the tab from the county hospital when someone gets horrible head injuries. And what about all of the people that get left behind when a rider goes down? The emotional and financial trauma that follows a rider down is horrible and terrifying.

Akin to not wearing a seatbelt, there is no defenseable position one can take to say that helmet laws would not save lives. What downside is there? The government is not mandating full leathers, gloves, jacket, and boots. They are not saying you have to drive a Volvo with airbags or that your car has to meet some unreasonable safety standard. They are saying that people must do the one thing that's gonna save there , put on a helmet/seatbelt.

When evaluating laws, you must look for the harms. Who does a helmet law harm?
Are you really not able to comprehend all that your idea implies? Where is the line? Where does "their" job end? Your idea has no limits. Mine says dumb can die. It's their right. I'm more concerned the the medical expenses of illegals in this country. I am all for wearing a lid. I just think it should be our right to decide our level of protection. Imagine for a sec that after this law they take it a step further and require full leathers. Then they make a law to limit cc' to 250 so people wont get hurt. Is that ok with you?
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:29 PM   #49
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Are you really not able to comprehend all that your idea implies? Where is the line? Where does "their" job end? Your idea has no limits. Mine says dumb can die. It's their right. I'm more concerned the the medical expenses of illegals in this country. I am all for wearing a lid. I just think it should be our right to decide our level of protection. Imagine for a sec that after this law they take it a step further and require full leathers. Then they make a law to limit cc' to 250 so people wont get hurt. Is that ok with you?
My money's on no, but you never know Robert....
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:15 PM   #50
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I really don't know when it became the gov's job to protect us from ourselves. I hate the idea though.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:19 PM   #51
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Quote:
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I really don't know when it became the gov's job to protect us from ourselves. I hate the idea though.
You're full of it.

EPA, FDA, USDA... do I need to go on?
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:19 PM   #52
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I wish I could use informal fallacies in more arguments. How about this. SHOW ME PROOF that enacting seatbelt laws has led to other laws about automobiles.

oh noes, they iz gonna makes me wear a helmet?!?

I say great, dont value your life enough to wear a helmet, do not burden me with the bill.

So unless they make a law stating otherwise, they need to bring back the helmet laws.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:14 PM   #53
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You're full of it.

EPA, FDA, USDA... do I need to go on?
I was very specific in my wording. I said "protect us from ourselves". Now tell me again how I'm full of it please.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:21 PM   #54
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I was very specific in my wording. I said "protect us from ourselves". Now tell me again how I'm full of it please.
That's kind of what I'm getting at? They protect people from themselves just as much as people from people.

FYI, "full of it" was the wrong English term to use. I apologize. I don't know what I meant but it was not that.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:02 AM   #55
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That's kind of what I'm getting at? They protect people from themselves just as much as people from people.

FYI, "full of it" was the wrong English term to use. I apologize. I don't know what I meant but it was not that.
Sorry bro, but I just couldn't help myself, I'll keep it civil though There is a MASSIVE difference in governmental regulation of industry related to public health, and the regulation of INDIVIDUAL behavior related to public health. This issue popped up all the time while I was earning my BS in Health Science (ooh, the irony ). Someone in the class would come up with a good idea with the potential of greatly improving the overall health of the population or a subgroup of it, but rather than focusing on educating the public on the issue so they could make THEIR OWN informed choices, they would usually push for passing laws to regulate those choices. The problem is that the government has been overstepping it bounds on what it is supposed to do for the people for so long, that most don't even realize it because that is all they have ever known. IT IS NOT OUR GOVERNMENTS JOB TO PROTECT INDIVDUALS FROM THEIR OWN POOR JUDGMENT. The main argument that is used against what I am saying is that the bad choices that people make cost the taxpayers money. There is a simple precedence for correcting this problem. For example, if an alcoholic experiences liver failure from drinking, they don't get put on the list for a transplant, because they knowingly did it to themselves. This concept should be expanded exponentially, and if it was, the concept of personal responsibility to take care of oneself rather than depending on someone else to do it for them would be reborn and the country would be tremendously better off for it.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:39 AM   #56
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I really don't know when it became the gov's job to protect us from ourselves. I hate the idea though.
Ding ding ding ding ding ding WINNER!

I agree 100%. I don't like them telling me what to do. All those gov't agencies that are there for my protection suck.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:40 AM   #57
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You're full of it.

EPA, FDA, USDA... do I need to go on?
It's not the job of the Federal Gov't to protect me from myself.

Sorry for the threadjack.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:02 AM   #58
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Quote:
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Sorry bro, but I just couldn't help myself, I'll keep it civil though There is a MASSIVE difference in governmental regulation of industry related to public health, and the regulation of INDIVIDUAL behavior related to public health. This issue popped up all the time while I was earning my BS in Health Science (ooh, the irony ). Someone in the class would come up with a good idea with the potential of greatly improving the overall health of the population or a subgroup of it, but rather than focusing on educating the public on the issue so they could make THEIR OWN informed choices, they would usually push for passing laws to regulate those choices. The problem is that the government has been overstepping it bounds on what it is supposed to do for the people for so long, that most don't even realize it because that is all they have ever known. IT IS NOT OUR GOVERNMENTS JOB TO PROTECT INDIVDUALS FROM THEIR OWN POOR JUDGMENT. The main argument that is used against what I am saying is that the bad choices that people make cost the taxpayers money. There is a simple precedence for correcting this problem. For example, if an alcoholic experiences liver failure from drinking, they don't get put on the list for a transplant, because they knowingly did it to themselves. This concept should be expanded exponentially, and if it was, the concept of personal responsibility to take care of oneself rather than depending on someone else to do it for them would be reborn and the country would be tremendously better off for it.
Holy ! Grimace has his game face on. Excellent job explaining it the point.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:01 PM   #59
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Well , anyway , hope the rider has a full recovery.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:18 PM   #60
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Well , anyway , hope the rider has a full recovery.
oh! thats right! this was a thread about a rider down. hope he recovers
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