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Old 06-02-2011, 11:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post


This isn't the way most people are riding these bikes anymore. They're leaving their braking as late as possible, and staying on them all the way to the apex.


I guess in important note is that none of what I'm talking about applies to street riding
No matter how long you are on the brakes, or how you use them, a stable chassis equates to better corner speed and stability... if it's rocking fore and aft, it is wasted motion. The more you can do to alleviate that, the faster you'll go

We can argue till the cows come home; and agree to disagree.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:09 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
No matter how long you are on the brakes, or how you use them, a stable chassis equates to better corner speed and stability... if it's rocking fore and aft, it is wasted motion. The more you can do to alleviate that, the faster you'll go
I agree. Wouldn't coming off the rear headed into a turn (in order to get into the proper body position) unload the front, and do exactly what you're suggesting is bad?
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:14 AM   #43
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lol at this thread.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:17 AM   #44
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nope.. as you are getting back on the gas, even maintenance throttle.. the bike will rise a bit..

I tend to get into BP prior to the corner anyhow; I'm a big boy so moving around upsets the bike a bit. I also turn later than most.. prefer the quick flick to the long lazy turn.

I use my lower leg and knee to lock in.. whether braking or shifting the feet are free to move around a bit... flip side is if my foot slips off the peg mid turn it ain't no biggie.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:21 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
nope.. as you are getting back on the gas, even maintenance throttle.. the bike will rise a bit..
Do you get back on the gas before the apex?


Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
I tend to get into BP prior to the corner anyhow; I'm a big boy so moving around upsets the bike a bit. I also turn later than most.. prefer the quick flick to the long lazy turn.
Quick turning is the correct thing. Getting into the BP before the turn is the correct thing. How do you reconcile rear brake use with proper body position in a right hand turn? , even in a left hand turn it still requires compromising BP to get to that lever.

Quote:
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I use my lower leg and knee to lock in.. whether braking or shifting the feet are free to move around a bit... flip side is if my foot slips off the peg mid turn it ain't no biggie.
I don't quite understand what you're saying here.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:32 AM   #46
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OMG (sorry - seems appropriate here)....

Both brakes should be in good working order. Personally, without the right tools and all, I trust brake repair to a service professional just for assurance. I can probably replace pads, but I really don't want to be the only one responsible for finding a problem (or not) with my brakes.

If you have no brakes, there is a problem that could occur again even after "pumping" the lines.

Rear brakes are important to have available for various reasons. Racing is not normal riding to compare to. Rear brakes are good to use in a parking lot, or an uphill stoplight or traffic or light slowing, or just balancing with the front braking for normal riding...

all this talk about braking and turning techniques is killing me - and the thread has been hijacked!

In the end, you can ride without a rear brake for almost everything, unless your front brakes go out ....
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:33 AM   #47
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why the are you guys talking like we're taking it to the track??? LOL.....

If this is how you guys ride then ! can I come with ya??
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:40 AM   #48
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Quote:
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why the are you guys talking like we're taking it to the track??? LOL.....
I made that distinction a page or two back.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:07 PM   #49
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I made that distinction a page or two back.
I think Txlurch can take you.......

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Old 06-02-2011, 12:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Do you get back on the gas before the apex?


Yes indeed


Quick turning is the correct thing. Getting into the BP before the turn is the correct thing. How do you reconcile rear brake use with proper body position in a right hand turn? , even in a left hand turn it still requires compromising BP to get to that lever.

Because my foot stays on the peg.. my size 13 boot can't turn and point without compromising ground clearance, and I am flexible enough to get the knee out without "pointing" my foot

I learned back when tires were skinny, bikes were heavy, and your thigh was on the seat more than your cheek

I don't quite understand what you're saying here.
I am saying the pegs aren't the most important thing in hanging on the bike.... unless it's a trials bike.. even then my feet were off the pegs more often than not to get it balanced a certain way.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:33 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Yes indeed


Then by today's way of doing things: you're doing it wrong because you didn't carry enough speed into the turn initially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Because my foot stays on the peg.. my size 13 boot can't turn and point without compromising ground clearance, and I am flexible enough to get the knee out without "pointing" my foot


So you have paddles for feet. This is outside the norm. Your abnormality requires you to do something different that allows you to acheive an abnormal goal. Do you think this is something you should be instructing? I'm fat. I wouldn't teach skinny guys to brace against the tank with their guts because I know better. Even though that's something I'm capable of doing.


Quote:
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I learned back when tires were skinny, bikes were heavy, and your thigh was on the seat more than your cheek


Well, if you can't teach an old dog new tricks, maybe you can keep him from barking outdated info at the young dogs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
I am saying the pegs aren't the most important thing in hanging on the bike.... unless it's a trials bike.. even then my feet were off the pegs more often than not to get it balanced a certain way.


I understand now. However, free foot or not, the granularity of control available to your ankle doesn't even hold a candle to what you can do with your fingers. In the short amount of time you have to prepare for a corner, your attention is divided several ways. Adding in the additional dimension of moduling the rear brake near lockup....which is difficult to do in the best of times.....isn't worth the sliver of gain (which is obviously debatable) that you might be able to get from it.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
So based on one turn, you feel they NEVER use the rear brake? I'll wager that they use it a bunch more than they don't..
Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I'll take that wager. If you're doing all of the things you're supposed to be doing on a sportbike: late braking, trailing through the turns, hanging off...you're not even in a position to be able to activate the rear brake during the majority of the time you're braking.
On the track, those whose style is suited to use of the rear brake often employ thumb brakes for the rear so body/foot position isn't always applicable.

And as Grinchy mentioned, Doohan was a rear brake proponent and probably the first on the grid to use a thumb operated rear brake in the early '90s after an injury made the pedal harder to use.

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Old 06-02-2011, 12:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
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What bike even uses dot 5???

I have no idea, but many people switch to DOT 5 for various reasons. Hence giving him a warning.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
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On the track, those whose style is suited to use of the rear brake often employ thumb brakes for the rear so body/foot position isn't always applicable.

And as Grinchy mentioned, Doohan was a rear brake proponent and probably the first on the grid to use a thumb operated rear brake in the early '90s after an injury made the pedal harder to use.
I'd be interested to find out how prevent their usage really is in racing. The quick poll I took over lunch of the guys that I know that ride track returned results of 'wtf, no, you don't use the rear brake' and 'sure I use the rear brake....when I've ridden off into the dirt' amongst other, similar responses.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:55 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I'd be interested to find out how prevent their usage really is in racing. The quick poll I took over lunch of the guys that I know that ride track returned results of 'wtf, no, you don't use the rear brake' and 'sure I use the rear brake....when I've ridden off into the dirt' amongst other, similar responses.
I'd be curious as well... but the poll needs to be from racers as opposed to track day riders...
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #56
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Quote:
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front forks have bearings? I've been all up in a fork, even on an '04 gsxr 600, and have yet to find a bearing.

they do have bushings, he may be a little confoozed


There's nothing to changing pads on a rear brake. The only difficult step is that the rear wheel has to be removed to access the pads. Get a service manual for your bike, there are several places on the net to download the manual for that bike for free (, I might have a copy somewhere....I still have an '04 gsxr trackturd) and you should be fine.

incorrect, the caliper is removable without removing the rear wheel

On a side note, you really shouldn't be using the rear brakes on a sportbike unless in an emergency situation.
also incorrect, the rear brake will assist you in riding better in most situations IF used properly
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:01 PM   #57
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damnit. i should have read the whole thread.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:11 PM   #58
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Lol... Yeah that would had helped...
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Old 06-02-2011, 08:28 PM   #59
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I'm a complete noob. Just took my msf course and was taught both breaks all the time. I keep reading differently. So can someone please give me a short concise reason as to why you should only use your front brake?
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:17 PM   #60
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use your rear brake dont listen to these guys. There is a reason they are designed to do 20% of the breaking.
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