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Old 05-23-2011, 10:45 AM   #21
kibitzer
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I was joking with Po-po yesterday at MSRH saying the Priller must have come with a set of . That bike really has payed off in confidence for him. I don't know if motards do that for every rider, but it certainly worked for him.

My personal path involved getting into minis. The riding styles are very different, but the basics were reinforced at a very acceptable speed for my brain to get a handle on. Looking through turns, throttle control, and finding the limits of the bike without crashing too hard.


I find the motards fun, but for the moment enjoy the feel of the SS around the track. I will ask that please, please, please don't be a litre bike straight line hero. My little 600 has to work very hard to run those guys down.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibitzer View Post
I was joking with Po-po yesterday at MSRH saying the Priller must have come with a set of . That bike really has payed off in confidence for him. I don't know if motards do that for every rider, but it certainly worked for him.

My personal path involved getting into minis. The riding styles are very different, but the basics were reinforced at a very acceptable speed for my brain to get a handle on. Looking through turns, throttle control, and finding the limits of the bike without crashing too hard.


I find the motards fun, but for the moment enjoy the feel of the SS around the track. I will ask that please, please, please don't be a litre bike straight line hero. My little 600 has to work very hard to run those guys down.
Wish granted. It's not why I'm taking trackdays. Cornering is the name of the game. Anybody can twist open a throttle. ANYBODY!!! I am not a fan of the 600's because I like the low/mid range grunt that litres have. That's it. It's about not their ability to run away.

I don't think lean confidence is my biggest issue. I am not afraid that I will drop the bike and if I do... then it means that I need to work on my body positioning but lack of confidence? I dont think so. I have absolute faith in the leaning capabilities of these motorcycles. I DO have terrible confidence issues with braking before a turn going very fast. I really struggled on that big sweeper in turn 8 before the hard corner in turn 9 going CCW. Mental block. Terrible. I kept looking through turn 8 but I was mentally seeing turn 9 instead.

After lunch on 4/30, everything went to . I was hungry, exhausted, worried about my wife, low on fuel, etc... so I let my street habits fall back in which is... relaxed, safe riding which doesn't translate very well for the track. I need to be MOVING... but for those two sessions right before lunch, it all was starting to click for me... I was having a blast following Tim's line. I guess its kind of like the rabbit at the greyhound track. Once Tim disappears... I'm a lost greyhound trying to find the line. Definite confidence issue there. But the actual turning itself? I don't feel it's so much a confidence issue because of those two sessions and my past riding experience... then again... what the do I know!!! Essentially, I only have a solid half trackday under my belt. After lunch doesnt count. sad

I expect to be pushing it much much harder on 5/4 at GSS.

Motards... I think I am going to give it a shot NEXT time. I'm going to stick with my bike at the moment until I am able to get my hands on a motard.

Minis? You mean a fiddy? Similar to what stunters use to train on? Ehhhhh.... not liking that idea very much. I'm a rubber side down guy... BUT I am listening...
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
I probably had 5k street miles before my first trackday, and then an additional 5k before my second. I did have a few street habits to break, but the biggest thing for me was faith in the front end. I never "got over" my first streetbike wreck because I could never figure out why it happened. I always had this underlying fear that if I pushed the bars, the front was going to tuck. Riding a tard got me past that.
Crashing's a definite confidence killer. I've crashed enough myself to understand that it's virtually almost ALWAYS rider error so thusly I am not "afraid" of my machine albeit I do respect it. Once again, thanks for your insight. Definitely very very very useful.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:23 PM   #24
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My 50 is on Dunlop TT91s. No stunting here. We set up cone tracks at the lots and race our butts off.

I no longer have a street bike so it makes for a great filler between trackdays and it's a blast rocketing around the lot dragging a lot more than a knee. It's not for everyone, but it was what finally switched on the light for me.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #25
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My 50 is on Dunlop TT91s. No stunting here. We set up cone tracks at the lots and race our butts off.

I no longer have a street bike so it makes for a great filler between trackdays and it's a blast rocketing around the lot dragging a lot more than a knee. It's not for everyone, but it was what finally switched on the light for me.
I think I would like to see this one day. Do you cone off at the track or a random lot such as Monday Night Minis?
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroHonda View Post
I think I would like to see this one day. Do you cone off at the track or a random lot such as Monday Night Minis?
Random lot. We have a good lot close to I-10/Park Ten that we use. I started at the MNM lot, but there is some kind of concrete glaze that is always powdering up and the 50 just won't stick at full lean.

I'll keep you in mind when we get another session going. We have a Honda 50,70, and 100. Po-po a KLX110. So there are varying sizes to try out.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroHonda View Post
Wish granted. It's not why I'm taking trackdays. Cornering is the name of the game. Anybody can twist open a throttle. ANYBODY!!! I am not a fan of the 600's because I like the low/mid range grunt that litres have. That's it. It's about not their ability to run away.
the problem is: without expensive datalogging equipment how do you know your improvements aren't just straight line speed? You can say "well I think I took that turn faster, and my laps were .2 faster" could really just mean that you rolled on the throttle a little sooner on the straight.

The low/mid range grunt is also a cheat. On an I4 bike you should really be keeping the rpms up as that's where the real power is.....even on a litre. Using the extra low/mid torque is a band-aid to either not carrying enough mid corner speed (i.e. slowing down all the way through the corner) or not choosing the correct gear before turning in.

None of this is to say you can't get faster on a litre. Its just more difficult to pinpoint your deficiencies.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
the problem is: without expensive datalogging equipment how do you know your improvements aren't just straight line speed? You can say "well I think I took that turn faster, and my laps were .2 faster" could really just mean that you rolled on the throttle a little sooner on the straight.

The low/mid range grunt is also a cheat. On an I4 bike you should really be keeping the rpms up as that's where the real power is.....even on a litre. Using the extra low/mid torque is a band-aid to either not carrying enough mid corner speed (i.e. slowing down all the way through the corner) or not choosing the correct gear before turning in.

None of this is to say you can't get faster on a litre. Its just more difficult to pinpoint your deficiencies.
Hmmm... I definitely use the low RPMs as a crutch to get out of trouble. Dammit. Just when I think I've got it all figured out... I'd like to meet you and talk shop. You make a LOT of sense. Will you be attending the Fastline event on 5/4.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:51 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroHonda View Post
Hmmm... I definitely use the low RPMs as a crutch to get out of trouble. Dammit. Just when I think I've got it all figured out... I'd like to meet you and talk shop. You make a LOT of sense. Will you be attending the Fastline event on 5/4.
6/4? Probably.

Things like RPM management might be slightly more advanced topics, but needless to say for an average turn if you go into a turn at 10k rpms (in the ballpark of where you'd be on a litre....I think.....I haven't done a trackday on one since '08), and you're at 6k rpms when you start to get back into the throttle, you probably weren't carrying as much speed as you could have. On a 600 or smaller bike you'd be screwed at this point if you were trying to pass someone because there's just no power down there. On the litre you've got enough torque that you can still drive out.
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Old 05-23-2011, 03:15 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
6/4? Probably.

Things like RPM management might be slightly more advanced topics, but needless to say for an average turn if you go into a turn at 10k rpms (in the ballpark of where you'd be on a litre....I think.....I haven't done a trackday on one since '08), and you're at 6k rpms when you start to get back into the throttle, you probably weren't carrying as much speed as you could have. On a 600 or smaller bike you'd be screwed at this point if you were trying to pass someone because there's just no power down there. On the litre you've got enough torque that you can still drive out.
D'oh. Yes, I meant 6/4.

I am nowhere near that kind of skill so no worries. Remember, half trackday is my total experience. I am 100% a beginner at the trackday experience. I know nothing.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:10 PM   #31
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I bought my first tard about 8 months ago and it is awesome. Took it to GSS a few months ago and it was a blast although I suck on the track. Way more fun that the other track days I have done. I know this is the "taking to the track section" but one thing your overlooking is how much fun they are on the street. Twice as fun at half the speed. You can take on pretty much any terrain and go anywhere which is kind of hard to wrap your head around after riding street bikes for so long. Pretty soon you realize that are no longer bound to a little lane on a little strip of concrete and the world becomes your playground. Set yourself free grasshopper, buy a motard.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:56 PM   #32
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After racing for 10 years, then being off for 5 completely (the career took the lead), I just got back into riding again about 6 months ago and went the tard route. I've raced everything from a GSXR-750 to every brand of 600, except Yamaha, and an SV650, but decided to get back into the addiction with something that is fun but also crashes well... try crashing any 600 vs any tard... the difference can be thousands. At GSS, you can't have more fun than the tards, and at MSRH today, well the tards were a little out-motored in the advanced group, but we still had alot of fun and we held our own.
Hi-Side was hauling the mail at MSRH on the 'tard yesterday. I missed a shift at Diamond's Head and he was gone-Daddy-gone! I don't feel too bad. Dude once raced AMA.

Getting to your point, and it looks like you really want a liter-bike so you will probably do what you want anyway, I think there is a real virtue in learning to squeeze everything out of a smaller bike. When you don't have the horsepower, you have to use other skills to get around the track. I am a better rider on a 600 because I have had to learn how to get by slower guys on liter-bikes. Right now, and partially because GSS lightweight is such a gas, part of my road to becoming a better rider will be squeezing everything I can out of a Ninja 250 against the motards. Why a Ninja 250 and not a tard? Personal preference, I guess. Just last weekend I was thinking hard about Staton's tard, but for now I roll GP style.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:31 PM   #33
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Hi-Side was hauling the mail at MSRH on the 'tard yesterday. I missed a shift at Diamond's Head and he was gone-Daddy-gone! I don't feel too bad. Dude once raced AMA.

Getting to your point, and it looks like you really want a liter-bike so you will probably do what you want anyway, I think there is a real virtue in learning to squeeze everything out of a smaller bike. When you don't have the horsepower, you have to use other skills to get around the track. I am a better rider on a 600 because I have had to learn how to get by slower guys on liter-bikes. Right now, and partially because GSS lightweight is such a gas, part of my road to becoming a better rider will be squeezing everything I can out of a Ninja 250 against the motards. Why a Ninja 250 and not a tard? Personal preference, I guess. Just last weekend I was thinking hard about Staton's tard, but for now I roll GP style.
Yes I am going to do what I think best suits me and my wants but not in the way that you made it sound. I am not looking for approval. I created this thread in search of genuine advice.

I don't know about the 250. Watching Tim giving somebody a piggyback ride on that silver 250 at GSS was a hoot. I am definitely open to the idea but I don't know... I need to observe the other riders more during my downtimes at TDs. Watch what they're doing and riding. I was more focused on trying to get a grip on how things work at the track than anything else. On 6/4, I'd like to walk around and meet some of you folks in real life, talk shop, maybe even make a friend or two...

Big bikes are all I know after so many years and it can be very foreign trying to consider another sort. Believe me... my search for advice is genuine and I am listening...
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:42 PM   #34
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Yes I am going to do what I think best suits me and my wants but not in the way that you made it sound. I am not looking for approval. I created this thread in search of genuine advice.

...

Big bikes are all I know after so many years and it can be very foreign trying to consider another sort. Believe me... my search for advice is genuine and I am listening...
Fair enough. I guess what I'm kind of driving at is that while I and everyone else here will offer you our thoughts (for example, I also think SV650s rock) the fact remains that when push comes to shove you still have to decide what fun is for you (and it is mos def not a SV650). Nothing against it, but you might know already in your heart of hearts what you really want. I figure motorcycles are for fun, and you can always eat your vegetables elsewhere.

Come to think of it, maybe what you really need is something in between a SV650 and a liter-bike, something with that smooth v-twin mid-range, but a bit more power and style. Hey, I've got it. You need to buy my 2005 Ducati 749.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:54 PM   #35
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Fair enough. I guess what I'm kind of driving at is that while I and everyone else here will offer you our thoughts (for example, I also think SV650s rock) the fact remains that when push comes to shove you still have to decide what fun is for you (and it is mos def not a SV650). Nothing against it, but you might know already in your heart of hearts what you really want. I figure motorcycles are for fun, and you can always eat your vegetables elsewhere.

Come to think of it, maybe what you really need is something in between a SV650 and a liter-bike, something with that smooth v-twin mid-range, but a bit more power and style. Hey, I've got it. You need to buy my 2005 Ducati 749.
Haha. I'm financially stable enough to learn on an expensive Ducati. Maybe one day I will be good enough at riding track...
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