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Old 05-13-2011, 10:41 AM   #61
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Quote:
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i think in order to institute or suggest any motorcycle related laws you should require at least 2 years M endorsement and own at least one motorcycle, then you would at least sound coherent when you write these types of things.

statistics show that people who don't know what they're talking about sound like morons.
As long as they don't own a sportbike, because sportbikes are OBVIOUSLY so much more dangerous.

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I emailed both my senators and asked them to vote against this bill unless it is amended to include all motorcycles.
I agree with the intent of the bill but am against the method the bill uses.

Sportbike crashes are more spectacular and flashier making for better news, but I am more at fear of the cruisers out there with their poor riding skill, fashionable rather than safe gear, and their empty trail of beer bottles leading to the bike.
+1. Again, it's a perception thing. People don't see cruisers popping wheelies or doing 160 on the freeway (although if cruisers could, it would happen). Most people think cruisers are safer (because they can't do 160 or pop wheelies), so they think protective gear is not required. The public is uneducated, so they don't recognize poor riding skill and don't see the trail of beer bottles.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:43 AM   #62
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remember pin their focus is on 'crouch rockets', however their criteria describes virtualy every non cruiers/enduro style back, well except maybe a katana. :-)
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:48 AM   #63
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remember pin their focus is on 'crouch rockets', however their criteria describes virtualy every non cruiers/enduro style back, well except maybe a katana. :-)
I think my old ninja 500 had a bar behind the seat also....
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:48 PM   #64
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Do you think there might be a chance that this is because fewer people over 30 ride sportbikes, or don't ride at all? The answer is "yes." Of course there will be fewer fatalities in that age group if fewer people of that age ride. People typically start raising families in their 30's and a lot of them walk away from riding. Several members of this forum are contemplating that very thing for this exact reason.

This is not a law that will be actively enforced. Someone (I believe it was Ulric) said this will be an "after the fact" law. He is absolutely correct. It will not even be brought into play unless there is a wreck.

This law does not target all sportbike riders. It targets those with less than 2 years of experience. If you don't fall into that category, it shouldn't bother you, anyway..
BULLSHIT, it doesn't just target those with less than 2 years experience, it targets all sports bike riders that have a passenger. Your comment about if you don't fall into that category is one of the major problems with this country today. This is how they are able to successfully chip away at our freedoms. They target such a minority group that they get backing by others such as yourself, since you admittedly said it wouldn't effect you since you are a new responsible rider. People are so eager to give up other peoples freedoms, you included all in the name of temporary security which is only an illusion. Yet when someone comes after one of YOUR freedoms (when you fall into the minority category) and you're fighting for it, you'll be left dumbfounded why no one is sticking up for your freedoms, why the populace is so willing to give up YOUR freedom. But yet you're guilty of the same thing.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:44 PM   #65
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BULLSHIT, it doesn't just target those with less than 2 years experience, it targets all sports bike riders that have a passenger. Your comment about if you don't fall into that category is one of the major problems with this country today. This is how they are able to successfully chip away at our freedoms. They target such a minority group that they get backing by others such as yourself, since you admittedly said it wouldn't effect you since you are a new responsible rider. People are so eager to give up other peoples freedoms, you included all in the name of temporary security which is only an illusion. Yet when someone comes after one of YOUR freedoms (when you fall into the minority category) and you're fighting for it, you'll be left dumbfounded why no one is sticking up for your freedoms, why the populace is so willing to give up YOUR freedom. But yet you're guilty of the same thing.
Dude...you really need to slow down and read everything that's been written so far. How does it target all sportbike riders with a passenger when it specifically says it applies to riders with less than 2 years on their "M" endorsement? Are you complaining because it will apply to riders with over 2 years experience that DON"T have their "M" endorsement? You'll get no sympathy from me there. I don't care how much time you have on a bike...get your endorsement.

The law did not re-define what constitutes a sportbike...it just clarified the definition that has been used for years. The government did not just pull that definition out of thin air. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sportbike+wiki

The law specifically says bikes not already considered sport tour, cruiser, dual-sport, etc. Bikes that already have these classifications WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED SPORT BIKES.

I never said it wouldn't affect me, and I never claimed to be a responsible new rider. (Go ahead and re-read my posts, find it and post it as a quote if I did) I have also said if passed, it should apply to ALL motorcycles...not just sportbikes. (I think I said this at least twice, so it should be easy for you to find)

As someone stated several pages ago...driving is a privilege, not a right, and privileges can be taken away. People forget that, and think they are entitled to do any thing they want to on the road, even if it endangers others.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:22 PM   #66
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Dude...you really need to slow down and read everything that's been written so far. How does it target all sportbike riders with a passenger when it specifically says it applies to riders with less than 2 years on their "M" endorsement? Are you complaining because it will apply to riders with over 2 years experience that DON"T have their "M" endorsement? You'll get no sympathy from me there. I don't care how much time you have on a bike...get your endorsement.

The law did not re-define what constitutes a sportbike...it just clarified the definition that has been used for years. The government did not just pull that definition out of thin air. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sportbike+wiki

The law specifically says bikes not already considered sport tour, cruiser, dual-sport, etc. Bikes that already have these classifications WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED SPORT BIKES.

I never said it wouldn't affect me, and I never claimed to be a responsible new rider. (Go ahead and re-read my posts, find it and post it as a quote if I did) I have also said if passed, it should apply to ALL motorcycles...not just sportbikes. (I think I said this at least twice, so it should be easy for you to find)

As someone stated several pages ago...driving is a privilege, not a right, and privileges can be taken away. People forget that, and think they are entitled to do any thing they want to on the road, even if it endangers others.
My bad on the new rider part. You used a scenario of a new rider.

Let me spell it out for you. If you have a passenger there is no way in the LEO knows whether or not you have 2 years on your M endorsement unless they pull you over. Therefore I stand by my statement all sports bike riders with a passengers are a target.....In regards to ALL motorcycles, let me revamp my petition. Let it apply to ALL people under the age of 30 on ALL motorcycles. I call for an outright ban making it illegal for ANYONE under the age of 30 to operate ANY type of motorcycle on are public roadways. I have one simple question for you, will YOU support such a ban?
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:36 PM   #67
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I doubt very seriously if LEO will start pulling over every sportbike with a passenger. They simply have too much else to do. The helmet law is a good example of this. LEO doesn't pull over bikers with no lid just to check them for health insurance. If they don't have insurance, however, it MAY come into play if they are stopped for something else. The insurance thing is much easier and less time consuming to check than the length of time someone has had their "M" endorsement. The only LEO that might make a stop for riding 2-up is a bored DPS trooper, and they're pretty scarce around here. The 2-up law will only come into play after a wreck. That way they have something to blame it on.

Of course I wouldn't support a law banning anyone under 30 from riding any bike. Make it anyone under 30 being banned from operating ANY motor vehicle, and I might be interested. Kind of ridiculous, isn't it?

The problem with the under 30 statistic is that it is skewed. Of course there are fewer sportbike wrecks in the over 30 age group because fewer people in that age group ride bikes of ANY kind. I bet if you look at the number of cruiser wrecks in the above-40 age group, the ratio would be very similar to the number of sportbike wrecks in the under-30 age group.

Trust me...I'm not bashing sportbikes, & I do not want one group of riders to be harrassed while another group is left untouched. I realize that there are complete idiots in every age group in/on every vehicle out there.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:46 PM   #68
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I doubt very seriously if LEO will start pulling over every sportbike with a passenger. They simply have too much else to do.
.
Go tell that to Holtsclaw.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:13 AM   #69
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4 pages so far, LOTS of typing. How many people who have posted up here in opposition to the bill have contacted their Senator in Austin about this? Show of hands?
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:59 AM   #70
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4 pages so far, LOTS of typing. How many people who have posted up here in opposition to the bill have contacted their Senator in Austin about this? Show of hands?
Hands raised

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinball View Post
I doubt very seriously if LEO will start pulling over every sportbike with a passenger. They simply have too much else to do. The helmet law is a good example of this. LEO doesn't pull over bikers with no lid just to check them for health insurance. If they don't have insurance, however, it MAY come into play if they are stopped for something else. The insurance thing is much easier and less time consuming to check than the length of time someone has had their "M" endorsement. The only LEO that might make a stop for riding 2-up is a bored DPS trooper, and they're pretty scarce around here. The 2-up law will only come into play after a wreck. That way they have something to blame it on.

Of course I wouldn't support a law banning anyone under 30 from riding any bike. Make it anyone under 30 being banned from operating ANY motor vehicle, and I might be interested. Kind of ridiculous, isn't it?

The problem with the under 30 statistic is that it is skewed. Of course there are fewer sportbike wrecks in the over 30 age group because fewer people in that age group ride bikes of ANY kind. I bet if you look at the number of cruiser wrecks in the above-40 age group, the ratio would be very similar to the number of sportbike wrecks in the under-30 age group.

Trust me...I'm not bashing sportbikes, & I do not want one group of riders to be harrassed while another group is left untouched. I realize that there are complete idiots in every age group in/on every vehicle out there.
I suppose you doubt that they randomly pull people over for the seat belt as well, after all, they just have too much to do.

Of course it's ridiculous to place a ban on the 30 and under group. Just as it is ridiculous as per your reasoning for the proposed law you support, because it just might possibly save a life.

You don't know what the you're talking about. Let me give you some cold hard numbers (which can be verified via the NHTSA).
Motorcycle ownership (of ANY kind) broken down by age group.
3.7% Under 18
10.8% 18 - 24
7.6% 25 - 29
8.9% 30 - 34
10.4% 35 - 39
27.9% 40 - 49
25.1% 50 AND OVER

72.3% falling into the 30 and over crowd. 22.1% for the under 30 group. The remaining 5.6% is unknown what age group the fall in. To be fair, I'll let the 30 and under group have the remaining 5.6%, which is still a far cry from the 72.3%. Do you still say it's skewed? Also per the NHTSA, the 20-29 age group consistently has the highest annual number of motorcycle fatalities. So if you support a proposed law such as HB 2470 which you think would save a life or two, it wouldn't be all that far fetched to ask you to support a ban on the 30 and under group since it would undoubtedly save many more lives that HB 2470 ever would. Do you finally see the problem with your rationale for supporting such a law? If not, you're a lost cause.

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Old 05-14-2011, 07:13 AM   #71
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Just ban those evil sport bikes period.. no good ever came from them... keep them on the darn track where they belong...

I'll keep my touring bike instead...
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:32 PM   #72
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Is it just me, or does it seem that most of the operator+passenger injuries and deaths involve cruisers and not sportbikes - typically when neither one is wearing a helmet?
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:34 PM   #73
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4 pages so far, LOTS of typing. How many people who have posted up here in opposition to the bill have contacted their Senator in Austin about this? Show of hands?
Me
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:53 AM   #74
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Hmm...what about a mandatory refresher every "x" years? Maybe make it like a CHL renewal where you go back to class to learn the laws that have changed.
Only if the cagers have to do it.

For that matter, cars kill way more people than bikes ever have. Why not a mandatory class for them?
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:48 AM   #75
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4 pages so far, LOTS of typing. How many people who have posted up here in opposition to the bill have contacted their Senator in Austin about this? Show of hands?
Just my senator? We have folx on the FB contacting all the Tx senate members. :-)
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:00 AM   #76
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Go tell that to Holtsclaw.


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Old 05-16-2011, 11:09 AM   #77
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:53 PM   #78
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Let me spell it out for you. If you have a passenger there is no way in the LEO knows whether or not you have 2 years on your M endorsement unless they pull you over.
Look at your license.

Now, with that piece of plastic, prove to me when you got your M license...

It is my opinion we need to all be against this bill. Whether it's for sportbikes, cruisers or scooters - it's unenforceable, biased and poorly written. I don't even see how it is a deterant.

Please write your senators about how this should be tabled and not become law. Pretty please. http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us/
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:20 PM   #79
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Look at your license.

Now, with that piece of plastic, prove to me when you got your M license...

It is my opinion we need to all be against this bill. Whether it's for sportbikes, cruisers or scooters - it's unenforceable, biased and poorly written. I don't even see how it is a deterant.

Please write your senators about how this should be tabled and not become law. Pretty please. http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us/
I stand corrected. How the heck are they even going to know a person has had their M endorsement even AFTER they have pulled you over. All the more reason to be against this proposed law.

BTW, whatever happened to Pinball? I haven't seen him back around in here after I hit him with some cold hard factual statistics.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:26 PM   #80
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gotcha. that makes more sense. but why single out sportbikes? why not make that a universal motorcycle law?
I am with you. I hear more about cruiser wrecks with passengers than sport. Is there a statistic somewhere that I have not seen?
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