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Old 05-12-2011, 08:27 PM   #41
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Malorie's Law Because the way the weight of the driver leaning over, the passenger has nothing to hold on to and the driver has had is bike 3 months that how you kill my daughter. Google most dangerous bike on the road and put your daughter on the back driving at a dangerous speed because to driver has the sense gave a bent screwdriver. Keep in touch and I will continue to pray for you and your family
The girl knew her parents didn't want her on it, the rider knew her parents didn't want her on it. So this bill would have stopped her how? It would have prevented this accident how?
He disregarded the speed limit, they both disregarded her parents wishes... Trunk monkey to the rescue?
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:29 PM   #42
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I have told girls that I am not comfortable taking passengers on my bike.

I ditched the passenger pegs and rear seat for that exact reason.

Makes it easier to say "sorry I have no seat or pegs."



ROFL @ trunk monkey... those commercials were amazing.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:52 PM   #43
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
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The girl knew her parents didn't want her on it, the rider knew her parents didn't want her on it. So this bill would have stopped her how? It would have prevented this accident how?
He disregarded the speed limit, they both disregarded her parents wishes... Trunk monkey to the rescue?
I think I answered this in my last post, but it was lengthy, so I will summarize. The law itself would not have prevented it. Every law in place will be broken at some time or another. The law is merely a deterrent. There will be a handful of people that fall under this law who will heed it, thereby reducing the risk to themselves and others. A majority of people will simply disregard it, but it is like a lock....it only keeps honest criminals out.

I will use murder as an example. It's against the law, but some people do it anyway. If it was not against the law, most of us would have shot at least one cager by now. The law in place deters us from doing so. Extreme example, I know, but quite relevant.

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I have told girls that I am not comfortable taking passengers on my bike.

I ditched the passenger pegs and rear seat for that exact reason.

Makes it easier to say "sorry I have no seat or pegs."
Finally, someone gets it.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:13 PM   #45
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I think I answered this in my last post, but it was lengthy, so I will summarize. The law itself would not have prevented it. Every law in place will be broken at some time or another. The law is merely a deterrent. There will be a handful of people that fall under this law who will heed it, thereby reducing the risk to themselves and others. A majority of people will simply disregard it, but it is like a lock....it only keeps honest criminals out.

I will use murder as an example. It's against the law, but some people do it anyway. If it was not against the law, most of us would have shot at least one cager by now. The law in place deters us from doing so. Extreme example, I know, but quite relevant.

Finally, someone gets it.
No we got it long ago. I posed the question to the 'quote'... which you answered, it would have done squat.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:40 PM   #46
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No we got it long ago. I posed the question to the 'quote'... which you answered, it would have done squat.
My "getting it" statement was for this thread in general...not your specific post.

This seems to me like a case of people only hearing what they want to. There's no guarantee that the law would have prevented anything, but my argument is that there is a chance that it would have acted as a deterrent, which is all any law amounts to, anyway.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:01 PM   #47
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I think that with this law in place people are going to still do it. because a vast amount of people will have no clue otherwise. I just do not like it being left to JUST sportbikes.


Nevertheless, this will prevent nothing... just seems to be another reactionary law being put into place to appease a group.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:37 PM   #48
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I think that with this law in place people are going to still do it. because a vast amount of people will have no clue otherwise. I just do not like it being left to JUST sportbikes.


Nevertheless, this will prevent nothing... just seems to be another reactionary law being put into place to appease a group.
I definitely agree with that. The problem is that with all things, perception is reality. When someone sees a sportbike flying down the road and weaving in and out of traffic, their first thought is "There goes another on a sportbike." They see cruisers do that with much less frequency, so on the occasion they DO see a cruiser weaving in and out of traffic, most people see that as the exception rather than the rule.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:49 PM   #49
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My "getting it" statement was for this thread in general...not your specific post.

This seems to me like a case of people only hearing what they want to. There's no guarantee that the law would have prevented anything, but my argument is that there is a chance that it would have acted as a deterrent, which is all any law amounts to, anyway.
Just making sure we end up on the same page....

Change this thing to all bikes, put something in there that actually educates and creates awareness and I wouldn't necessarily be against it... but as it is, all it is is another punitive measure with only real impact being 'after the fact'.

It does jack squat to create awareness and educate anyone, which are 2 of the biggest claims for it.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:35 AM   #50
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I think this will answer the law being a deterrent right here

people still drive without M endorsement

and most importantly

people still drive without insurance regardless if its two wheels or four
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:06 AM   #51
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I think this will answer the law being a deterrent right here

people still drive without M endorsement

and most importantly

people still drive without insurance regardless if its two wheels or four
True, people break the above laws, but I would say a majority obey them. Those laws keep most people from driving without an endorsement/license/insurance. This one would be different because most will break it...just like speeding...but a handful will comply. Some is better than none, IMO. It's about minimizing risk.
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:09 AM   #52
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Just making sure we end up on the same page....

Change this thing to all bikes, put something in there that actually educates and creates awareness and I wouldn't necessarily be against it... but as it is, all it is is another punitive measure with only real impact being 'after the fact'.

It does jack squat to create awareness and educate anyone, which are 2 of the biggest claims for it.
Much agreed. Awareness and education are the core issues, & next to nothing is being done to improve that. Perhaps a longer MSF class would help.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:45 AM   #53
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You're right...laws don't prevent anything. People will do what they want, regardless of whether or not there is a law against it. I think that there are a lot of people on the fence that will, if this law is enacted, reconsider having a passenger if they do not meet the requirements stated in this law. Will it magically make inexperienced rider fatalities go away? Of course not, but it may drop the number a percentage point or two, and I'll take that over a rise in deaths, any day.




See above for your first two sentences. As for the rest...how many people do you know that ride will openly admit that they are inexperienced riders? Do you think some guy trying to impress a girl he's trying to get in bed will say, "No, you can't get on my bike. I've only been riding this R1 for 3 weeks, and I'm not comfortable carrying a passenger." no. Even if she asks, he's going to tell her he's been riding for years. An adult who has made the decision to get on the back of a bike is not innocent, but if they are misled, whose fault is it exactly? Again...see above. It won't completely stop it from happening, but a few conscientious riders will heed the law.

The grab bar thing i don't really understand. Maybe there's a yet-to-be-disclosed statistic about passenger's sliding off the bike during acceleration or during a wheelie. Who knows?

As far as a passenger having their "M" endorsement, I completely understand this. Most people simply do no understand the risks involved in riding a motorcycle. Sure, they know it's dangerous, but if you ask them why they think so, their answer usually involves getting hit by a car. They are unaware of that riding a bike is not like driving a car and do not understand the skills required and the physics (cornering and braking traction, mainly, and the effects of water, debris and passengers on said traction) involved in riding one. I am pretty certain the lawmakers added this part because someone with an "M" endorsement will (typically) have a much better understanding of the risks involved, and are able to make a more well-informed decision about whether or not to get on the back of a bike with someone who is inexperienced.

As for the 2 year requirement before you can carry a passenger? I'm sure studies show that people ride their bikes "X" miles in "Y" time, and those same studies probably show that there is a significant decrease in motorcycle fatalities in riders with >2 years experience. Am I certain of this? Of course not. It's just an educated guess. I see it like the cell phone use in a car law. If you're under 18, you cannot use a wireless communication device and operate a motor vehicle at the same time if the vehicle is in motion. Yes, I know it can be said that the difference is the age limitation, but look at it from the other side. For most people, turning 18 gives them roughly 2 years driving experience.
With your line of reasoning one can only draw the conclusion that you would be in FULL SUPPORT of a law that prohibits anyone from under the age of 30 from operating a sport or super sport motorcycle. Statistics show overwhelmingly that the majority of motorcycle fatalities involve operators of sport and super sport motorcycles are under the age of 30. A law such as this could easily save a thousand times more lives than this silly proposed MC passenger law that you're in support of. I'm going to go to Austin next month to lobby for such a ban for the 30 and under group. Will you sign the petition before I go?
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:37 AM   #54
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............... I'm sure studies show.............


at least the "speed limit" law is effective! RIGHT!
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:43 AM   #55
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If it was not against the law, most of us would have shot at least one cager by now. The law in place deters us from doing so.
I disagree...most people don't think, "Oh...I would totally kill someone, but I don't want to go to prison."
Most get their sense of morality from religion, their upbringing, etc., and NOT from govt. laws.

Is this new law going to generate a new revenue stream? Yes.
Is it going to deter doubling up on a bike without 2 years of experience? Probably not.

I just don't understand why some people are so willing to give up their freedoms. I know this law seems like a small sacrifice, but these laws add up quickly.

"Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:04 AM   #56
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i think in order to institute or suggest any motorcycle related laws you should require at least 2 years M endorsement and own at least one motorcycle, then you would at least sound coherent when you write these types of things.

statistics show that people who don't know what they're talking about sound like morons.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:29 AM   #57
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Perhaps a longer MSF class would help.
It was longer until about 6 years ago. Didn't work.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:12 AM   #58
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I emailed both my senators and asked them to vote against this bill unless it is amended to include all motorcycles.
I agree with the intent of the bill but am against the method the bill uses.

Sportbike crashes are more spectacular and flashier making for better news, but I am more at fear of the cruisers out there with their poor riding skill, fashionable rather than safe gear, and their empty trail of beer bottles leading to the bike.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:26 AM   #59
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With your line of reasoning one can only draw the conclusion that you would be in FULL SUPPORT of a law that prohibits anyone from under the age of 30 from operating a sport or super sport motorcycle. Statistics show overwhelmingly that the majority of motorcycle fatalities involve operators of sport and super sport motorcycles are under the age of 30. A law such as this could easily save a thousand times more lives than this silly proposed MC passenger law that you're in support of. I'm going to go to Austin next month to lobby for such a ban for the 30 and under group. Will you sign the petition before I go?
Do you think there might be a chance that this is because fewer people over 30 ride sportbikes, or don't ride at all? The answer is "yes." Of course there will be fewer fatalities in that age group if fewer people of that age ride. People typically start raising families in their 30's and a lot of them walk away from riding. Several members of this forum are contemplating that very thing for this exact reason.

This is not a law that will be actively enforced. Someone (I believe it was Ulric) said this will be an "after the fact" law. He is absolutely correct. It will not even be brought into play unless there is a wreck.

This law does not target all sportbike riders. It targets those with less than 2 years of experience. If you don't fall into that category, it shouldn't bother you, anyway.

Note: For those that will not/have not read this entire thread, I stated in an earlier post that the law should encompass ALL motorcycles, not just sportbikes. It's not right to single out one kind of bike.

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at least the "speed limit" law is effective! RIGHT!
I covered this in an earlier post.

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I disagree...most people don't think, "Oh...I would totally kill someone, but I don't want to go to prison."
Most get their sense of morality from religion, their upbringing, etc., and NOT from govt. laws.

Is this new law going to generate a new revenue stream? Yes.
Is it going to deter doubling up on a bike without 2 years of experience? Probably not.

I just don't understand why some people are so willing to give up their freedoms. I know this law seems like a small sacrifice, but these laws add up quickly.

"Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Thomas Jefferson
True. I have to argue, though, that fewer and fewer people these days have any sense of morality or responsibility. The example of shooting a cager may have been extreme. Is pulling a gun to scare the cager that intentionally swerves at you a better example? No one dies, but it's still against the law. I have seen at least two threads where riders have considered that and the only thing that stopped them was the law against it.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #60
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It was longer until about 6 years ago. Didn't work.
Hmm...what about a mandatory refresher every "x" years? Maybe make it like a CHL renewal where you go back to class to learn the laws that have changed.
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