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View Poll Results: Do you have a M Class Endorsement on your License?
Yes 200 91.74%
No 18 8.26%
Voters: 218. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-04-2011, 11:44 AM   #61
texlurch
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Sad thing is, I've met more than a few riders, licensed or not, that have no idea how to ride a motorcycle.

I am talking people with 10-15 years under their belts, that have no clue how to actually control a bike.

I will continue to ask people I ride with if they have MSF and their M stamp. I like to know who is around me on the road, plus who may bolt when the Leo shows up.

And I have personal experience with the fact that when one of the group isn't legal, it brings down the wrath of the cops...

You can hem and haw and come up with all sorts of reasons to try and justify why you don't try and learn the most you can about riding, and/or get legal.

None matter in the "real" world, you still have to play the game.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:45 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Sad thing is, I've met more than a few riders, licensed or not, that have no idea how to ride a motorcycle.

I am talking people with 10-15 years under their belts, that have no clue how to actually control a bike.

I will continue to ask people I ride with if they have MSF and their M stamp. I like to know who is around me on the road, plus who may bolt when the Leo shows up.

And I have personal experience with the fact that when one of the group isn't legal, it brings down the wrath of the cops...

You can hem and haw and come up with all sorts of reasons to try and justify why you don't try and learn the most you can about riding, and/or get legal.

None matter in the "real" world, you still have to play the game.
+ 1.5 Billion
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"I lack skillz"
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:47 AM   #63
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+ 1.5 Billion


This post is



BEVO APPROVED!



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Old 05-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #64
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Yea, I'd like to hear how licensing causes more harm than not
Wish granted!
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:01 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by rukus View Post
Which is why I stated "licensing in general". My argument is not against M certification or MSF training, it is against the blanket assumption that license = ability. In many instances, as shown by the Hurt report, license holders may perform better than the unlicensed, but when looked at on a wider scale, beyond just motorcycle licensing, it becomes apparent that there is no causal connection between the two.
I think you are logically correct in the lack of a causal tie between licensing and ability. However you seem to have neglected the massive correlation between a lack of safety consciousness and those who chose to perform some activity in violation of societal rules. I postulate that the lack of respect for the societal norms (obeying the law) will generally translate to less respect for death, pain and others property.

Regarding the topic at hand I perceive a direct link between a lack of M endorsement and a rider being a higher risk of crashing as well as a certainty of being a complete douchebag who I would not want to associate with regardless of their competence on a bike.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:17 PM   #66
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I didn't know people were taking this poll seriously. I put no as a joke and i got multiple PM's. Guess i wont do that again. Guys need pics?

LOL
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:20 PM   #67
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I didn't know people were taking this poll seriously. I put no as a joke and i got multiple PM's. Guess i wont do that again. Guys need pics?
Guess the joke's on you
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"I lack skillz"
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:20 PM   #68
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Guess the joke's on you
Your right! i guess the joke is on me. womp womp!
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:25 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartandude View Post
I think you are logically correct in the lack of a causal tie between licensing and ability. However you seem to have neglected the massive correlation between a lack of safety consciousness and those who chose to perform some activity in violation of societal rules. I postulate that the lack of respect for the societal norms (obeying the law) will generally translate to less respect for death, pain and others property.

Regarding the topic at hand I perceive a direct link between a lack of M endorsement and a rider being a higher risk of crashing as well as a certainty of being a complete douchebag who I would not want to associate with regardless of their competence on a bike.
Good point. But remember we live in a society that added around 70,000 pages of new laws to the legal code last year alone. It is literally impossible to obey them all. (I recently heard a statistic claiming that the average American commits 3 felonies a day every day without even knowing it. Not sure where I heard it though) In that context, is it really reasonable to assume that some one who fails to comply with a licensing law is automatically an irresponsible douchebag? Personally, I may not have finished my MSF certification, but I have taken the time to educate myself on safe riding practices (on the street). I consider myself to be a cautious and courteous rider and have never heard anything to the contrary from anyone who has rode with me.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:39 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus View Post
Good point. But remember we live in a society that added around 70,000 pages of new laws to the legal code last year alone. It is literally impossible to obey them all. (I recently heard a statistic claiming that the average American commits 3 felonies a day every day without even knowing it. Not sure where I heard it though) In that context, is it really reasonable to assume that some one who fails to comply with a licensing law is automatically an irresponsible douchebag? Personally, I may not have finished my MSF certification, but I have taken the time to educate myself on safe riding practices (on the street). I consider myself to be a cautious and courteous rider and have never heard anything to the contrary from anyone who has rode with me.
How many times have you been arrested?
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:42 PM   #71
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At least I don't drive a front wheel drive truck!
Could be worse. I could be tooling around on a bike without a license
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:42 PM   #72
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:43 PM   #73
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How many times have you been arrested?
Once, 14 years ago; but never for anything moto related.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:45 PM   #74
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Once, 14 years ago; but never for anything moto related.
So all these laws and only one arrest? Maybe you should worry more about being struck by lightning or hit by a meteorite
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:46 PM   #75
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:00 PM   #76
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So all these laws and only one arrest? Maybe you should worry more about being struck by lightning or hit by a meteorite
Given the reputation I have for inviting chaos upon myself, either of those would be par for the course!
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:01 PM   #77
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Given the reputation I have for inviting chaos upon myself, either of those would be par for the course!
I should have added "while downshifting"
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:06 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus View Post
Good point. But remember we live in a society that added around 70,000 pages of new laws to the legal code last year alone. It is literally impossible to obey them all. (I recently heard a statistic claiming that the average American commits 3 felonies a day every day without even knowing it. Not sure where I heard it though) In that context, is it really reasonable to assume that some one who fails to comply with a licensing law is automatically an irresponsible douchebag? Personally, I may not have finished my MSF certification, but I have taken the time to educate myself on safe riding practices (on the street). I consider myself to be a cautious and courteous rider and have never heard anything to the contrary from anyone who has rode with me.
And that's why we should never talk to the popo! Have you heard about a motorcycle endorsement law? If yes, STFU.

You may be safe and courteous, but because you have chosen to not get an easy M endorsement I will still call you a douchebag; not because it has any bearing on you, but because I disagree with your choice and feel like calling you a douchebag. I hope that's okay with you, douchebag.

By the way, have I mentioned I'm an ?
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:09 PM   #79
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I should have added "while downshifting"
You talk a fair game for an old man who rides around the track with his colostomy bag strapped to his back!
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:14 PM   #80
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Quote:
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By the way, have I mentioned I'm an ?
Hi ! Nice to meet you!
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