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Old 04-25-2011, 08:42 PM   #1
jimrad
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What NOT to do after a wreck.

Alright guys, i see a lot of enthusiasts taking the extra step by learning CPR. Good going. I am in the medical field and realize how lack of oxygen can cause irreversible damage to the brain. The first few minutes of care provided to a fallen could change everything, for better or worse.

I have seen a lot of riders go down and have provided care for them at the time. I have seen some things that the helping riders or the fallen rider do that could cause MORE damage than help. Here are some steps I highly recommend:

1) Pull over to a safe spot...preferably on the inside of the corner or anywhere that will not cause the following riders to fixate on your bike and crash. CALL 911 and give them the location.

2) Access the damage to the rider...is he responding to your questions?

3) If he is then PLEASE ask him to lay still...the first thing the rider or others might try to do is stand up or remove his helmet. NO...do not move. A broken rib could cause internal bleeding or puncture a lung...a broken neck can cause a lot of damage if moved. Ask the rider where he hurts..look for obvious damage...if the rider is impaled by an object..do not attempt to pull it out. Always helps to get details of the pattern of the riders fall from someone that saw it happen.

4) If the rider unconscious check for a pulse ..preferably using the index and middle finger placed on the side the neck.

5) If no pulse then proceed with CPR...

Most important thing is to avoid getting back on your feet before accessing the damage.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:46 PM   #2
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Do not remove helmet if patient is responsive and breathing the only reason you should remove the helmet is to start CPR. Other than that great info spot on.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:46 PM   #3
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tried to stand up and move around after my first wreck... felt fine and all but really you have basically no control over a blackout.. i almost passed out, felt all clostrophobic and couldnt get enough air, started vignetting and had to sit down. wasnt even that bad.. had a minor scrape but the mental 'impact' from a wreck can be pretty heavy.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Most important thing is to avoid getting back on your feet before accessing the damage.
yeah every time i ate it the first instinct is get up and check on the bike/move it out of the street.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobounds View Post
tried to stand up and move around after my first wreck... felt fine and all but really you have basically no control over a blackout.. i almost passed out, felt all clostrophobic and couldnt get enough air, started vignetting and had to sit down. wasnt even that bad.. had a minor scrape but the mental 'impact' from a wreck can be pretty heavy.
been there a few times...and yes..i had no idea what i was doing...just pacing around in pain...that's why someone else with you needs to take over and help you stay calm...well this was before i had enough knowledge about the dangers.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrad View Post
Alright guys, i see a lot of enthusiasts taking the extra step by learning CPR. Good going. I am in the medical field and realize how lack of oxygen can cause irreversible damage to the brain. The first few minutes of care provided to a fallen could change everything, for better or worse.

I have seen a lot of riders go down and have provided care for them at the time. I have seen some things that the helping riders or the fallen rider do that could cause MORE damage than help. Here are some steps I highly recommend:

1) Pull over to a safe spot...preferably on the inside of the corner or anywhere that will not cause the following riders to fixate on your bike and crash. CALL 911 and give them the location.

2) Access the damage to the rider...is he responding to your questions?

3) If he is then PLEASE ask him to lay still...the first thing the rider or others might try to do is stand up or remove his helmet. NO...do not move. A broken rib could cause internal bleeding or puncture a lung...a broken neck can cause a lot of damage if moved. Ask the rider where he hurts..look for obvious damage...if the rider is impaled by an object..do not attempt to pull it out. Always helps to get details of the pattern of the riders fall from someone that saw it happen.

4) If the rider unconscious check for a pulse ..preferably using the index and middle finger placed on the side the neck.

5) If no pulse then proceed with CPR...
Most important thing is to avoid getting back on your feet before accessing the damage.
that is for those in the medical field. untrained people have a hard enough time finding their own pulse, much less being able to find it in an emergency. what is taught to non-medical people is that if they are not beathing, immediately start compressions. here is a link.

http://firstaid.about.com/od/cpr/f/1...abc-to-cab.htm
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:09 PM   #7
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sbfuller, yes u r right. When my friend crashed, i thought he was still breathing..but, his body was shutting down..he died on impact... he still appeared to be breathing for a while.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:23 PM   #8
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sbfuller, yes u r right. When my friend crashed, i thought he was still breathing..but, his body was shutting down..he died on impact... he still appeared to be breathing for a while.
that must be horrible, seeing a bro pass
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrad View Post

1) Pull over to a safe spot...preferably on the inside of the corner or anywhere that will not cause the following riders to fixate on your bike and crash. CALL 911 and give them the location.
I would recommend well past the corner.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:57 PM   #10
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that must be horrible, seeing a bro pass
yes!! still haunts me..we had been planning this ride for over 2 weeks...that morning he rode up to the back of the house and had the biggest smile on his face..I don't know what really happened..he and another rider were a couple of corners ahead of me...he went off the road and hit a tree.

I was in denial of his death the whole time paramedics were there.. I had to call his family and it was terrible..

The worst part of the whole thing was to see the family suffer...He did not suffer.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:33 PM   #11
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a few other things to add, if you do have to move a person after a wreck to clear them of harms way, please don't do it by yourself, umless you have no other choice. Using 2 people allows you to maintain a stable head position. If you are by yourself and have to move someone, please use caution by placing you hands in and under the arms and then manuevering your hands back under the head.

Think of yourself standing over the person, putting your arms in a buttefly position starting from torso up under the arms and then reaching for the head, pulling the victim.

If you do not have to move the person, never ever do! But it is good to know how to when and if you do! Seeing we never seem to fall where we are suppose to!

Also if you have a flashlight on your phone, you can check for pupil dialation. Any serious head trauma will keep the pupils from dialating! It will tell you how seriously you need to get help!!

Also all bleeding needs to be stopped immediately, to do so use your shirt and rip it into a long piece of material and then wrap 2 times and then twist the ends. The bigger the bleed the more you twist, the larger the bleeding area the more you need to look at using a stick or long object to help you twist!

Pain scales are 1-10 1 being in pain but able to bare it. 10 is can't bare the pain. Knowing this will tell you if that person may make a rash decision. Being in so much pain makes you do stupid , thats when you know to hold them down! Losing a leg, will make you want to get up and loook for it, to us its common sense not to do that, put yourself at a 10 pain level and you're hopping around like the easter bunny looking to reattach your leg with super glue and duct tape just to stop the pain!
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrad View Post
yes!! still haunts me..we had been planning this ride for over 2 weeks...that morning he rode up to the back of the house and had the biggest smile on his face..I don't know what really happened..he and another rider were a couple of corners ahead of me...he went off the road and hit a tree.

I was in denial of his death the whole time paramedics were there.. I had to call his family and it was terrible..

The worst part of the whole thing was to see the family suffer...He did not suffer.
I didn't know. Sorry to hear.
Good post. I have been down many times when dual sporting I was able to get up because at the time I felt ok. Never thought about how bad it could have been.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:26 AM   #13
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Stop giving medical advice or direction here period!!! if you are not certified and certified but NOT in your AO nor "on Duty" don't touch period call 911 give them the location. if you are certified do what you know to do but keep it at the medically necessary and layperson level period. anything else and your patch is gone!
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Stop giving medical advice or direction here period!!! if you are not certified and certified but NOT in your AO nor "on Duty" don't touch period call 911 give them the location. if you are certified do what you know to do but keep it at the medically necessary and layperson level period. anything else and your patch is gone!
The advice he gave is solid. Pretty much make sure that the downed rider is safe and tell them to lay still until help arrives.

Also if the person is aware of their surroundings, while they are laying down.. ask them open ended questions as the first instinct is to shake their head yes or no.

Do not ask "Do you hurt?"
Instead ask "Where do you hurt?"
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:13 AM   #15
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I'm not disagreeing that the advice is sound, but that it is given at all, the advice is in violation of several laws and rules, we have had one person get busted by the state for it and I really hate seeing that. the best advice is to go take a class in firstaid/CPR then do what they teach you. advice like the above gets to be what is called practicing medicine without a license. I have been a Paramedic for over 20 years so yea its sound but getting too involved. It will get someone in trouble
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:15 AM   #16
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I'm not disagreeing that the advice is sound, but that it is given at all, the advice is in violation of several laws and rules, we have had one person get busted by the state for it and I really hate seeing that. the best advice is to go take a class in firstaid/CPR then do what they teach you. advice like the above gets to be what is called practicing medicine without a license. I have been a Paramedic for over 20 years so yea its sound but getting too involved. It will get someone in trouble
get somebody in trouble.... and or maybe save somebodies life....
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:16 AM   #17
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how exactly does the good samaritain law work JP?
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:22 AM   #18
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Pretty much number five should be taken out. Without being certified, one should not touch the person.... period.

But what colonel said should not be attempted by anyone without medical training. Unless the person is in extreme danger where they are (burning bike on top of them or something) you should not touch them at all, doing your best to make the accident scene safe is better than potentially injuring the rider by moving them.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:23 AM   #19
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it applies to the layperson, NOT EMS certified persons not to MDs or Nurses either, the good samaritan act also only covers criminal charges not civil. the OP stated he was in the medical profession type of world, he IS NOT covered by the Good samaritan act. when someone dispenses medical advice solicited or unsolicited and the advice is incorrect they can be held accountable,the good samaritan act does not apply, if they (layperson) acts as he believes the situation requires to save the life of someone he is protected from criminal prosocution for the specific acts that he performs. If he gives advice to someone that subsequently dies directly due to the advice he can be held criminally liable for causing the death and practicing medicine without a license
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:27 AM   #20
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"Alright guys, i see a lot of enthusiasts taking the extra step by learning CPR. Good going. I am in the medical field and realize how lack of oxygen can cause irreversible damage to the brain. The first few minutes of care provided to a fallen could change everything, for better or worse.

I have seen a lot of riders go down and have provided care for them at the time. I have seen some things that the helping riders or the fallen rider do that could cause MORE damage than help. Here are some steps I highly recommend:

1) Pull over to a safe spot...preferably on the inside of the corner or anywhere that will not cause the following riders to fixate on your bike and crash. CALL 911 and give them the location.

2) Access the damage to the rider...is he responding to your questions?

3) If he is then PLEASE ask him to lay still...the first thing the rider or others might try to do is stand up or remove his helmet. NO...do not move. A broken rib could cause internal bleeding or puncture a lung...a broken neck can cause a lot of damage if moved. Ask the rider where he hurts..look for obvious damage...if the rider is impaled by an object..do not attempt to pull it out. Always helps to get details of the pattern of the riders fall from someone that saw it happen.

4) If the rider unconscious check for a pulse ..preferably using the index and middle finger placed on the side the neck.

5) If no pulse then proceed with CPR...

Most important thing is to avoid getting back on your feet before accessing the damage. "

there I said it not him lol. I have been deployed twice and held countless brothers in my arms in there last few breaths so I know how you feel jimrad, it does suck! The advice you gave should be given out like candy because it saves peoples lives, if I walked up on a fallen rider and he was in need of attention and I saw that someone wasnt giving it I'd prolly just kill that person! what happens minutes after an accident, of any kind, sometimes determines how they will spend the rest of there life. good post jimrad!
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