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View Poll Results: Do you use the clutch?
Yes 11 50.00%
No 4 18.18%
only upshifting 1 4.55%
Only Downshifting 4 18.18%
Nitrohonda is ALL LIES! 2 9.09%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-06-2011, 06:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trav View Post
as long as the input/output speeds are in sync, it will shift fine up or down.

eg, when wanting to upshift: unload the gearbox by blipping the throttle shut. this causes slack in the gearbox and allows a smooth upshift gear change.

when wanting to downshift: unload the gearbox by blipping the throttle open. this causes slack in the gearbox and allows a smooth downshift gear change.
I learned something new today. Thanks. I am still afraid doing that to my ride though. I drive stick and not using the clutch in a car is surely a horrible thing to even think about...
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stromtrooper View Post
I learned something new today. Thanks. I am still afraid doing that to my ride though. I drive stick and not using the clutch in a car is surely a horrible thing to even think about...
not the same type of transmission. Its A O K to do as long as you match revs, both up and down.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:33 PM   #23
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and plus, you look super cool downshifting one handed coming up to a light. your buddies will be amazed at your mad skills.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:34 PM   #24
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at least thats why i do it... im super cool... ?
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:58 PM   #25
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I can safely do up/down shifts up choose to always clutch on downshifts. In a car it is a lot easier to do since you can hit neutral in between gears. But, with a bike, it can be tricky going down through the sequential box.

Upshifting is super easy though. Just roll off the throttle a little and kick up a gear. In traffic and at lower revs I tend to use the clutch. But, if I am banging away then I ignore the left lever completely on the way up the gears.

If you haven't watched it yet, download/rent/buy/borrow a copy of Twist of the Wrist 2. In the video they talk about proper downshifting with the clutch and rev-matching with throttle. Doing that coming up to a stop light is kinda rewarding in it's own weird twisted way
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbarmark View Post
I can safely do up/down shifts up choose to always clutch on downshifts. In a car it is a lot easier to do since you can hit neutral in between gears. But, with a bike, it can be tricky going down through the sequential box.

Upshifting is super easy though. Just roll off the throttle a little and kick up a gear. In traffic and at lower revs I tend to use the clutch. But, if I am banging away then I ignore the left lever completely on the way up the gears.

If you haven't watched it yet, download/rent/buy/borrow a copy of Twist of the Wrist 2. In the video they talk about proper downshifting with the clutch and rev-matching with throttle. Doing that coming up to a stop light is kinda rewarding in it's own weird twisted way

I find it actually easier on a bike than a vehicle. the neutral give the engine just enough time to drop rpm's that if you aren't fast enough, you miss your window and have to blip the accelerator to match rpm's again. the bike has no neutral to lose rpm's and shift can be made faster and easier.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:44 PM   #27
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who the uses the clutch nowadays? thats like using the brakes, its for

i heard they're taking that stupid thing off of the new bikes.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
not the same type of transmission. Its A O K to do as long as you match revs, both up and down.
That's what I don't get. How do you do rev matching between gears if you don't disengage the clutch ...
I guess I need to try and see
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solracer View Post
I up shift and down shift without clutching 90% of the time.
i'm intrigued and would like to see / hear this on ur 500. i've done it on ACCIDENT a few times...
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stromtrooper View Post
That's what I don't get. How do you do rev matching between gears if you don't disengage the clutch ...
I guess I need to try and see
research it before you go do it.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorNinja500 View Post
i'm intrigued and would like to see / hear this on ur 500. i've done it on ACCIDENT a few times...
come ride!
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorNinja500 View Post
i'm intrigued and would like to see / hear this on ur 500. i've done it on ACCIDENT a few times...
Watch or read Twist of the Wrist II, and you can learn how
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trav View Post
this thread already fails.

as long as the input/output speeds are in sync, it will shift fine up or down.

eg, when wanting to upshift: unload the gearbox by blipping the throttle shut. this causes slack in the gearbox and allows a smooth upshift gear change.

when wanting to downshift: unload the gearbox by blipping the throttle open. this causes slack in the gearbox and allows a smooth downshift gear change.

its not rocket science for christ sake.
Uhm...you are talking about the conventional way of shifting, right? By throttle you mean the clutch lever, right, you know, the thing you grip with the left hand?
cause the OP was talking about NOT pulling the clutch lever, as far as i could tell by "blipping"

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Trav View Post
clutchless downshifts DO NOT HURT ANYTHING as long as they are done properly. simply jamming the shifter down WILL damage the transmission, just the same as jamming it up will.
Simply jamming the shifter down... isnt that by definition clutchless? clutchless downshifting doesnt hurt anything, yet it damages teh transmission?

Im very confused here... either my bike is missing some shifting mechanism that ive never heard of or seen before, or you're just not making any sense...
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:19 PM   #34
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For me upshift, usually no clutch...downshift, I clutch.

There's an article somewhere that explains it...let me look.

Here you go.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0...ing/index.html

Once its fundamental theory is understood, the skill of clutchless upshifting is typically mastered in a matter of minutes. For first-timers, snicking slickly through the gears without the clutch brings a smile of wonderment, as if they just learned a new magic trick.

Surprisingly, the last time this shifting trick was discussed in these pages it brought about a storm of controversy that continues through Sport Rider correspondence to this day. It's actually a time-honored technique that I first read about in a Motorcyclist story about Eddie Lawson more than two decades ago. After that story was published, Lawson earned four Grand Prix world championships, all before the rider-aid wizardry of electric shifters, which, by the way, use the same basic principles discussed here. Anyone who still doubts the advantages of clutchless upshifting is welcome argue with Mr. Lawson, though last time I checked he still isn't one to lose at anything.

Though it's difficult for many to initially accept, upshifting without a clutch is in many ways simpler than the conventional pull-the-clutch-in-while-rolling-off-the-gas, shift-up,let-the-clutch-out-smoothly-while-rolling-back-on-the-gas method most of us grew up using. Instead, simply preload the shifter lightly, then quickly let off the throttle slightly and then back on and-presto-you're in the next gear. Done correctly, a clutchless upshift sounds and feels like that of an electric shifter, and no, it's not abusive to the transmission; countless years of the SR staff racing their personal bikes stand witness to this. The key qualifier here is the phrase "done correctly." Fortunately this is as easy to feel as it is to learn.

First, understand that while accelerating, even mildly, you're able to lightly lift (preload) the shift lever with your toe without causing the transmission to shift or pop out of gear. By lightly, we mean perhaps two to four pounds of upward pressure for a moment before your desired shift point. Then, as the tach sweeps past the desired rpm, simply crack the throttle slightly off, then instantly back on, as quick as a blink of an eye. Don't fully shut the throttle; only close it enough to momentarily reverse the acceleration load on the transmission before returning the twist grip to its original position. Remember to release the pressure on the shift lever after the shift to allow the mechanism to ratchet back and index the next gear.

As Kevin Schwantz teaches at his school, clutchless upshifting doesn't have to be under full-throttle acceleration and, in fact, is best learned under moderate acceleration at partial throttle. Once mastered, however, you'll find that it works at any speed and any rpm. Initially, it takes a bit of trial and error to get the timing and feel for it, and different bikes may require slightly different amounts of throttle change or quickness of movement, but you'll know when you hit the right combination. The shifter should snick into gear with a smooth movement and no notchiness. The bike's acceleration between gears should be virtually seamless.

All this clutch-free shifting business isn't just to impress your friends or passenger, however; there are several tangible advantages as well. As a man who earned his living (and the '93 world championship) wrestling savagely unsophisticated two-stroke GP bikes before the days of engine-management software, Schwantz is able to demonstrate that a well-executed clutchless upshift upsets the bike less than a conventional shift. In my 26 years of experience, I miss fewer shifts when I shift without using the lever on my left handlebar. Exiting right-hand corners with my body hung off to the inside (I'm talking track riding here, since, for several reasons, I do not hang off on the street), it's far easier to just snap back the throttle for an upshift than to make sure my left forearm is in position to allow my fingers to properly manipulate the clutch as well. It's simply one less thing to do, one less thing to think about and one less thing to go wrong.

We're not saying you should forget about using the clutch entirely; there are plenty of situations where it's likely to be to your advantage. But at the same time, clutchless upshifting is a skill worth learning. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't come to you on your first, second or 16th time. Practice it in a parking lot, or on a remote stretch of straight road, at moderate speed in an environment that allows you to give this novel technique your full attention and, by trial and error, varying the quickness and amount of throttle movement, it will come to you. When the situations warrant it, using your new shifting skill should give you all the satisfaction of pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
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Last edited by Tojo92; 04-06-2011 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIAO_STRADA View Post
Uhm...you are talking about the conventional way of shifting, right? By throttle you mean the clutch lever, right, you know, the thing you grip with the left hand?
cause the OP was talking about NOT pulling the clutch lever, as far as i could tell by "blipping"



Simply jamming the shifter down... isnt that by definition clutchless? clutchless downshifting doesnt hurt anything, yet it damages teh transmission?

Im very confused here... either my bike is missing some shifting mechanism that ive never heard of or seen before, or you're just not making any sense...
You are very confused. You use the clutch to control engine speed so that you can shift. However, that is not neccesary. There are other ways to control engine speed so you can shift, such as throttle control, and travel speed. If you are aware of the throttle neccesary at a given speed to shift to a given gear than you can do so very smoothly without a clutch at all and without damage.

The damage occurs when the engine speed is not matched to the travel speed and you shift without a clutch causing a tremendous amount of sudden engine braking which can damage engine components.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:35 PM   #36
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when im going 40 i pull the throttle back just a hair, then the next gear just slides into place.. that's what i ment, but it looks like you guys pretty much covered all of that, thanks.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:43 PM   #37
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I clutchless shift every bike I ride, up and down. I clutchless shift my cars when I'm just cruising.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:50 PM   #38
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I clutch up from 1st to 2nd, and clutchless to the top from there.

Downshifting I use the clutch, but that's because I like to let the clutch out slowly, that way it feels smoother. That and I use the engine for a lot of my braking needs. And I skip gears downshifting too.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojo92 View Post
For me upshift, usually no clutch...downshift, I clutch.

There's an article somewhere that explains it...let me look.

Here you go.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0...ing/index.html

Once its fund ... blah blah blah ...
thanks for the intelligent resonse Tojo

Quote:
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I clutchless shift every bike I ride, up and down. I clutchless shift my cars when I'm just cruising.
Yea, well, i just clutch shifted your mom! i keed i keed
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:13 PM   #40
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(no sarcasm intended there ^ Tojo, i'll read it when i get a chance)
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